Scott & Sam...I just sent out a piece of hacksaw blade
and the article to you both. Just take your time cutting it. I
sent a piece of hacksaw blade to Bob Evans years ago, and he
mentioned that he liked it in an old newsletter. Hope you had a
nice Christmas. Best regards, JJ Roberts loking for some history on a 1911 colt that is engraved
nicely with ivory or bone grips carved with a dragon gun is ww2
issue stamped property of us govnt.gun was obtained in 1964 from
a forgotten source. any ideas? have digital pics if interested. Scott...12/80 I ran across an article in Mechanic's
Illustrated..Winston Churchill and His Craft..talked about a
chisel made from hollow pointed nail set and a with a fragment of
hacksaw blade. I thought about it, and discussed it with a friend
who was an engraver, and I said to him "How could anybody
engrave with a hacksaw blade, it is too thin". His reply
"No JJ it is a hacksaw blade that they use in a machine shop
1/8" thick." This gentleman was making knives out of
the material he had..he gave me some and I have been using this
material ever since. I don't know how it holds such a good edge,
but it does. I gave some to Jim Lowe, and he is working on a
Model 21 Winchester and he likes it, and also sent some to Ken
Hurst, he also commented that it worked out nice for him. If, I
get a chance I'll send you a piece with the article on Churchill.
Yours truly...JJ JJ, I will enjoy giving it a try...Scott, I think I will
try the 110 also. After 35 years I have learned to appreciate the "softer" things in life! Regards. JJ, I hate to be skeptic, but could this Starret hacksaw
blade have in it, or done to it in terms of hardening, that other
traditional graver materials such as carbide, Momax Cobalt,
Glensteel(Momax without the cobalt), etc don't have???___________
Trying to look at both sides, I suppose a hacksaw blade is
designed to work at very low tempertures as opposed the point
temps, that machine tools are expected to perform at, but this
was sort of done by GRS with their Glensteel by dropping the
hi-temp ingredient Cobalt out. But......my personal experince is
there is very little diffrence between the 3 biggies on hard
metal..... the biggest thing that improved my tool life was using
a 110 degree cutting edge instead of a 90..... Regards scott Sam Welch & Members...I read your message about hard
gun metal...What I use for chisels is a Starrett Hacksaw
blade..the ones used in the machine shop. They are 19" in
length..1 3/4" wide, and 1/8" thick. They can be
ordered for MSC a machinery supplier. Their tele. # is
1-800-645-7270..order #RS1806-8..price for 1 blade $24.22 plus
postage. To cut this blade I use a Dremel cut-off wheel #409. You
must keep the cut wet with a sponge while cutting..we don't want
to take the temper out of the metal. This hacksaw blade..once you
cut it out into 2 1/2" strips, and shape it with the face
and heel of your desire, this not only holds an edge..you won't
chip any tips off. I have done Winchester model 21's, Ruger #1's,
Ruger Vacarro's in stainless and never had a problem. I put a
piece of hacksaw blade in the mail to you and let me know what
you think...JJ John Holt...just so you don't miss it, check my comments in
the message below...Sam. JOE LEVA, I know it is a long trip but if you want to
really jumpstart your learning to engrave, come to the Reno
annual meeting. You can then spend time with 40 or 50 engravers
(or more) and ask all the questions you can think up plus look
firsthand and some fine work. It has been the best thing for me.
I used to travel from Kodiak, AK for the meetings and haven't
missed one yet, starting with the very first one in 1980. JOHN
HOLT...some thoughts on your aluminum framed gun. Whatever finish
is on the receiver will have to be taken off. While the aluminum
can be engraved OK it is so soft that spreading out the work will
subject the finished parts to scratching and marring, unless you
don't use it and can store it safely between sessions. After the
work is completed I would recommend electroless nickel plating so
that the surface is hard and protected from corrosion and
marring. This is not a job that I can take on but I hope you find
an engraver that can. Regards, Sam. For Sale! GRS Magnablock – Engravers Block
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2679966754 Allow me to introduce myself, I am John Holt of Bowling
Green Ohio, I am rather new to hunting (3 1/2) years. I am
getting my first gun dog this year and have grown in to an avid
upland hunter. Over the past few years I have been admiring the
engraving on various guns that are over the counter. While
beautiful, they all seem to be impersonal, oh yes a person who
hunts _______ can find a gun engraved as such , or with great
rose work and so on. I have not seen, but i know that on some of
the most guns specialized engraving is avail....these guns are
all well beyond my means, and I have become attached to my gun, a
Beretta 685. I am sending this gun in to have the barrels, triger
gaurd and action lever reblued, as well as a good pro cleaning
come seasons end. I am looking to find out the est costs
associated with custom engraving. The reciever of the gun is
aluminum and has a matt surface with light engraving, I would
like to have my children and wifes faces engraved on the gun, as
well as my decesed fathers. I will be honest and tell you my
knowledge of your art is limited, and I compair it my mind to
stone sculptur, labors of love both, yet different in evey way.
The lay out I had in mind was my wife on one side and children on
the other (reserrving room for two more) and my father underneath
by the trigger gaurd...i am however open to artistic
interpretation...but that is the idea... my question is
this....can it be done in stages.... to spread out costs etc.
Thank you John holt jdhdale@hotmail.com Joe, I suggest that you get a copy of Meek's book "The
Art of Engraving" from Brownells and read through it a
couple of times first. Then you will have a much better idea of
the methods you wish to persue. Everything that I do is covered
in that book. I may do them a little differently today after
years of experience but the basics are there and I found I had to
read the book 3 or 4 times before I was able to relate some of
the ideas from different sections of the book. Good luck! Sam Hi, I just recieved my member packet and am very excited
but i need to know just how do i learn how to start engraving. I
am going to teach myself but i need info on what supplies to buy
to get started and also basic instruction. Brownells has two
different starter kits but I am not sure which is the one that
will better help me. Any info will be appreciated.Thanks Joe Leva David; Yes, please bring an example of your work to the
show. You might get some time for critiqe from some of the people
during show hours but Monday afternoon is dedicated to that sort
of thing in the seminar room. Hope to see you there. David, just bring it with you...brave soul! Sam I would like to have some work critiqued at the Tea and
Sympathy session in Reno. Do I need to send my stuff ahead of
time? If so, where do I need to send it and how soon does it need
to get there? Thanks. I have a shotgun that was engraved by William (Bill) H.
Patterson who was living in the Byran, TX area about 9 years ago
when he engraved my shotgun. I would like to have a biographical
sketch of him or a way to contact him if he is still living.
Thanks. Hi Cheryl, unfortunately i,m based in the Uk and use
conventional hand gravers,but if i can offer advice by email, i'd
be happy to do so. Tom www.familycrest-engraving.co.uk I'm a banjo maker and do quite a bit of pearl
engraving--for the type of pearl engraving traditionally on
banjos, you really don't need anything but a good sharp square
graver in a push graver handle and some liners. This is the way I
learned to engrave, and it's still the way that every other banjo
inlay engraver I know does it. I've heard of a few folks using
onglettes, but not many. A square graver can give you extremely
fine lines, as well as a lot of control over the shape of the
line. Today, I do everything with a Lindsay AirGraver set to a
very short stroke and a 110 or 120 degree square graver. At about
10 PSI, I have much better control over the cut than I ever did
with a push graver. I use it for the control rather than the
power. I've tried some other power handpieces on pearl, but have
never been able to get them to work as well as a regular push
graver--the pulses were too slow and too heavy, although they did
work. Being very careful and light handed due to the fragility of
the material is the big thing. Steve, pearl is very fragile, you will have to do it by
hand or with something with very fine control, such as the
Gravermax or AirGraver. Size does not really for the graver, as
long as it is VERY sharp, because you cannot cut very deep with
pearl or you will gouge out much more than you intended the way
the pearl flakes out. I am looking for a second bench setup and am looking for a
used machie.....would be interested in anything from a System 3,
Gravermate, Gravermax or a LindseyAir Graver. __________ A
gravermate or gravermax without handpeices would be fine with me Hi, I need some help. I just started doing Pearl inlays,
and I need to learn to engrave. I will need an onglette (sp)that
will give me sharp lines. What size would someone who is
experienced recommend. Also, do I go by hand, or do I use a
chasing hammer? Thanks, I'll be watching this sight, it looks
great!!! Are there any apprenticeship programs available? I am a
beginner engraver with a Lindsay Airgraver system, microscope
setup and a great passion for this art. I would consider
relocating. Thanks for such a great site! James, an FFL (federal firearms license) is required if you
take in another person's firearm from one business day to the
next. This applies to the serial numbered frame only. You can do
all the floorplates, barrels, etc. you want without license. You
will find the frames of many firearms rather hard. Anything over
Rockwell 37 is getting tough. Winchester M21s are supposedly
about 42 on the scale and are real tough, taking much more time
to cut (using carbide tools) but they cut cleanly, just eat tool
points. If you test a piece, do so in a hidden area. To James Roettger: Engraving a gun will definitely be a
learning experience. I would recommend taking a class on firearms
engraving before you start accepting commissions. Turning out
poor work, or worse yet, ruining someones' prized possession will
give you a reputation that you may not be able to get rid of.
Most gun steels are fairly mild in hardness. Some investment cast
stainless' can give you fits.(Ruger Red Label Shotguns are good
examples)I've never been able to engrave anything color case
hardened, unless it has been annealed. I am an experienced jewelry engraver and want to get into
gun engraving. The hardest thing I have engraved yet is a
stainless Rolex watch back. It was so hard it took all the fun
out of it. I've also engraved fake serial numbers in a replica
motorcycle axel. It was very hard but still smooth like steel, a
managable medium. What should I expect to encounter as far as
hardness goes? Do many jobs require annealing and rehardening?
Should I just do a test cut somewhere and decide based on that? I
want my first gun engraving job to be both a commission and a
learning experience as I am not a gun owner. Don Rogers, It has always been considered poor form to
engrave through the blue, or other metal finish, without
refinishing the metal. Also, to remove any burrs cast up in
engraving one generally needs to lightly sand or stone off these
burrs and then reblue/refinish. Old blue can most resily be
removed with Naval Jelly, or the like. Sometimes this is called
Navel Jelly, but you don't want that! Dennis Hello all. I've been ghosting this board for a little while
now, and think it is great. I have a question for the board. Does
anyone have any idea how many engravers there are in the USA. (ie
making money at this, part or full-time.) Thanks When engraving a Derringer Double Barrel, does the Blueing
need to be removed before engraving, and does it need to be
reblued after engraving Scott, I'm in Uvalde, Tx. Not that close, but not that far
either from Corpus Christi. Probably about 4 hours or so. Is there anybody near Alice, Texas... near Corpus Christi?
please contact me if so I forgot to add, you need to heat both the shellac and the
item to get them to hold properly. If you don't warm the item, it
will not stick as it cools the shellac too fast. The first time
you use it, you will probably make a mess getting everything too
hot but don't give up...M. RE: holding small items. I guess I'm old fashioned but I
still like orange flake shellac best. It is very sticky without
having to put part of the holding media over the item. Important
because you don't want anything catching the graver. That is why
I did not like the plastic pellets but maybe I got hold of the
wrong stuff. With shellac there is nothing above the surface if
you do it right. Shellac can be put on anything to hold the item,
quarters, pieces of wood, metal jigs you can make. I have found
getting the shellac and/or item too hot can make the shellac more
difficult to remove in methanol (which works better than alcohol)
and ultrasonic. A gentle flame works best and just to the point
of thick ooze. It gets on everything if you aren't careful and I
have tweezers and cross-locking tweezer just for shellac. I also
think you need to do the engraving as soon as it cools. I think
it loses some holding power if it sits too long, but you just
reheat and go at it. A jar will last forever, I will be dead
before I use what I have. Dennis, you may want to try some of the new thermoplastic
products. Little plastic pellets that when heated to about 160
can be kneeded together and a part stuck in them. While warm and
malleable clamp the goo in the vice and let it cool. Jett-sett is
one product name but there is another that is supposed to be
better and I don't know the name. Jewelers are starting to use
these products. Dennis, I normally use a pitch bowl or a block of wood with
pitch applied to it. I have tried the hot glue and find it gives
too much with each blow of the tool, which is rough on tool
points and makes setting gold harder to accomplish. The green
jewelers cement works also but is not quite as "sticky" as the pitch. The pitch cleans up very easily with alcohol
solvent. With pitch applied to dowels and small pieces of wood,
most odd forms can be conveniently held in your vice. Whatever
you use remember that it needs to be very firm and not give with
the blow of the tool. Sam How about a little survey and your recommendations here:
What method/material do you recommend for holding small or flat
items for engraving or inlay? Mostly parts that are hard to hold
in vise pins, like a side lock shotgun lock plate, or trigger
guard bows. Don, I might not know alot about cleaning my margins on
gold inlay but I know microscopes. What you saw on Ebay is not
useful as it is. It may be an OK scope but you need a way to
mount it above your work and acceptable light sources are
important. GRS sells a Meiji scope,stand and ring light and arm
lights which make a great combination but are very expensive. If
that is not a major consideration I would look at that. If it is
a big consideration look at MicroscopesUSA.com. They have a
selection and are a source of flex arm stands that are
sustantially less expensive but are of a slightly lower quality
or versatility but probably adequte for your use and they are
good to do business with. In any event by the time you but a
scope,lights and a stand you are looking at a big purchase but
one which I find invaluable. I'm looking for the best buy on a microscope to be used for
engraving. There is one listed on ebay #2575519806, anyone who
has knowledge of Microscopes, I would appreciate you going to
this item and advising me of it's worth, in regards to ingraving.
Also any other advise you can give me would be appreciated.
Thanks Don Rodgers Lou, after you get the cavity prepared for the gold, tape a
piece of acetate over the area and scribe the outline into it
along with a couple of indexing marks such as corners or scroll
lines. Once the gold is in this can then be used to give you the
info you need. Sam- Thanks but I am using a Xerox transfer method instead
of acetate. I suppose I could make a number of copies and put the
indexing mark on those and retransfer onto the inlay but since I
didnot do that this time I guess I will have to gently remove
margins until I think they are clean enough and look right. I may
try locating a few specific spots and try to retransfer on the
current work by realigning a new transfer with those spots. I
wish Glendo would have this topic in one of their courses. It is
the one thing left that I am getting through trial and error and
having an instructor and on the spot critique is a big help and
time saver. Lou, when I am doing raised inlays I make indexing marks on
the acetate overlay that I used to transfer the animal or design
to the steel so that after I have the gold in I can lay the
acetate in the exact location as before and that shows me where
the gold has overlapped the surface. This helps to get the
outline right and also to place such things as eyes, etc. in the
right location. A smoke pull will do the same but is a bit harder
to see. Regards. I have been working on a project for demonstration and
learning purposes which includes both flush and raised sculpted
gold and silver inlays. The flush work comes out very well and
ultimately the raised sculpted stuff gets acceptable but I find
that as I beat in the metal using either sheet or wire I blur the
margin of my cavity by having the metal flow over the undercut
edge and have a difficult time cleaning the edges back to sharp
clean margins. Any suggetsions on how to make this go smoother or
avoid the problem altogether?? Re: Engraving classes. I teach a beginner's engraving class
in Va. Beach in the spring and summer if enough sign up. Go to
New Approach School web site and click "Visiting
Masters" for details. As of now, the 04 class schedule has
not been done. I cover GRS power engraving, script, Old English
and monograms to mention a few. It is a full week and we stuff a
lot into the class. There is a 42inch TV so you can see me cut
and then students go at it. Mike I am looking for trade schools or correspondence courses
that teach engraving. I've done jewelry bench work before but I
am now interested in focusing entirely on hand engraving. Do you
have any suggestions? I see some work that has "french gray" engraving
- both cuts and uncut parts of the engraving, surrounded by blued
metal - same piece of metal. Also, pieces that have just the
engraved cuts gray, surrounded by bluing. Any hints on how to do
this. Thanks, John Hello again all! I have to give a quote for some engraving
on a magnum research BFR revolver. Anyone have any experience
with these, as to how hard, etc? Thanks, Tom Guess I missed the link info on the micro items. Thanks for
the blueing removal info. Robert, there are two ways to remove blueing, chemically or
manually. You can sand it off with sand paper, or a bead blaster,
or you can use acid to remove it. Phospohiric acid is usaually
used, Brownells sells it as rust remover, Naval Jelly will get
you where you want to go as well. _______as the paasche.......
You'll be sorry..... did the link I sent you to micromark tools
not work ? or were they out of stock on the Badgers? I have an old .38 special, just perfect to attempt an
engraving on. Won't be any more of a loss when I'm done. About
the blueing, does this need to be removed by a gunsmith, or is
there a cold chemical of some sort that'll do the job? Scott, I
ordered the Paskie air eraser anyway, I found a sale on it. FOR SALE: I wish Frank had known about this website, he
would have enjoyed it his last months. Thank you all for the kind
things you had to say about Frank. I will be selling Frank's
library and other things. Anyone interested email me and when I
compile a list, or as I compile lists, I will send out
information to all who reply. Scott Pilkinton: I can't seem to find a Badger "air
eraser", but have found the Pasche air eraser. Maybe the
Badger goes by another name. I have a sand blaster in my shop,
but it's really big. I think I need something very small for this
detail work. Friend Joe Mason is sending me photos of some of Mr.
McKinzies work. If anyone knows of a book or other sources of his
work, please let me know. I have his 3 tapes, and enjoy his
methods. Although I'm not a hammer and chisel user very much, his
techniques work well with the Lindsey set I have. chris m, My dad , a jewelry engraver, used to tell me when
I'd ask him what to practice on " Try to copy a dollar -
those guys are good ." Do you ever find yourself pushed to
make completion dates ? Are you in portraits, borders or scroll ?
When you retire ever think about lithographs ? Interesting! It's good to see people still interested in
hand engraving. The craft is all but dead. I would be happy to
answer questions about engraving and engravers- I am one of only
a handful of remaining Banknote Engravers left in the Country. I
engrave or etch in steel or copper the pictorial images on the
master dies of the U.S. currency. I also teach privately a course
in Colorado Springs each July for two weeks a course in hand
engraving at the American Numismatic Association. Hope to hear
from serious enthusiasts. Help I am not an engraver but have a unique item that I am
sure is an engraving tool/ machine. It was given to me as a gift.
It stands 4 plus feet tall. (with pat, #1552). It came a shelved
box which holds many heavy silver lettering templates which I
believe sit on a small almost shelf area with a scrib devise. As
you move the upper scrib a botom scribe follows.There are various
adjustment components. Iguess it would be cool to try it out if I
had any clue to what one would do. Any ideas or resource info
would be great. For cutting scotch tape under the microscope, the easiest
way to do it is with a small surgical knife . I have an
opthamoligst freind who uses them for cataract surgery, they are
used once and thrown away, but they are perfect for this work.
Got any doctor friends that work at a hospital? David, the temps for case color are lower than the melting
temp of the gold and I have never had to do anything to prepare
for the color, except be sure the steel is nicely polished for
more vibrant color. I think gold looks really nice against a case
color finish! The plating is different because the nickel will
plate right over the gold whereas the chemical process of color
casing doesn't affect the chemically inert gold. SW Scott, that's the info I was after, many thanks. Mr.
McKenzie must have really spent a lot of time trimming scotch
tape from around scrolls though, but looks like it has to be
done. Sam, Do you use the same process for inlaying gold on a gun
that is to be color cased that you do for one that is to be
electroplated? Thank you and thanks to everyone else for all the
great tips. Robert, different media will give different colors. Sand
will give a dull gray, glass beads (mostly what you are asking
about Lynton's work) will give an almost white look, aluminum
oxide in various grits will go steel grey to almost black. Source
for these, Brownells. Get a Badger air eraser for the sprayer,
the Paasche is junk____if you have a Custom Firearms Engraving
book, you can see some real good contrasts of various blast media
for coloration on my work shown on pages 9 and 139. I really like the look of some of Mr. McKenzie's work,
where he engraves and inlays, then covers the inlay with tpe (?),
then bead blasts the metal with some type of sand or bead
blasting medium. What is the "bead" that is used, and a
source, Thanks. Also, I've been lurking for several months since
I joined, and sure have enjoyed all the posts, especially those
about graver points, etc. I just posted a Gravermeister on ebay if anyone is
interested. Also I put up a Pentax 645 that was used for numerous
magazine pictures if you want to get into taking your own
professional quality pictures.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2670563583 here is direct link to the Nimshcke tools____I wonder what
they will go go for? ____
http://www.gmartin-auctions.com/premdec03/lot1372.html Hello all, I'm new to your group, and this forum, and have
really enjoyed reading the past messages. Lots of good info far
beyond my talents, but hopefully my efforts will improve with
time! For you present day masters, or those who like to push or
pound gravers, and the guys that just never have enough tools,
coming to auction is a large lot of guns and tools belonging to
Louis D. Nimschke! Check out Greg Martin Auctions @
www.gmartin-auctions.com. Click on the Ira Weinstein collection,
and lots 1366 thru 1375. Lot 1371 is a bunch of his tools,
hammers, files, etc. Great stuff! But be prepared with your extra
long checkbook! Again, I'm really enjoying your web-site and will
no doubt be asking questions just as soon as I can think of one
that is not so seriously stupid as to embarrass myself! John
Robbins Sam thanks for that, quit! Never! I’m really getting
the bug. Perhaps someone can have a look at
http://www.dinglydell.com/eng.jpg it shows one of my first
attempts, it’s a tad rough. I’ve tried to get the
graver in to show my angles, I’d appreciate any feedback on
angles/general. Sorry about the quality of the image my camera is
rubbish at close-ups. Thanks all Mostyn Mostyn, I have engraved a number of aluminum car parts and
other aluminum pieces. The softness is a nice change from hard
steel but it does have its problems. I use a square carbide
graver with a 45 degree face and for the most part a very small
heel of about 7 degrees, as I hold the tool low in a
gravermeister handle. It is impossible for me to cut long lines
very close to each other because the metal is so soft the tool
will drift into the cut next to it. A much longer heel will help
some if the cuts are straight lines but will cause problems of
drag as the curvature tightens up. The aluminum seems not to
stick to the carbide tool as badly as other tools but I find I
still have to wipe the tool point frequently against a piece of
hard wood to keep from getting a "false point" buildup.
Graver lube helps but I have read that kerosene works best...just
haven't tried that yet. Lots of practice and you will get used to
it...or quit. Regards, Sam. About demagnetizing- the cheapest degausser is to hold your
graver in the gap INSIDE the hot end of a soldering gun as you
are pushing the trigger. Do not touch the soldering iron or the
contacts with the graver- just keep it in the air inside the gap.
Move the graver back and forth slowly for a few seconds. The AC
field demagnetizes ferromagnetic objects (i.e. iron or steel).
cheers Eric Hi all, and thanks to Scott again, I'll try not to ask too
many more questions 80) I’ve found my help here invaluable
so far, but... are there any tips anyone can give me regarding
engraving (hand (push) graver) aluminium? I know it's not the
most ideal/durable material, but I especially want to engrave
motorcycle casings. I’m thinking face/heal angles,
lubricants or any methods in general? Thanks again Mostyn My Thanks to all for the information on ball-vises! I was
wondering if some form of a ball-vise could be used at an 18th
century reenactment, so it sounds like a non-rotating version
would be acceptable for at least the American Revolutionary War
period. Thanks again! John Gary, I still use an engraver's block with two rotating
sections that was patented Aug. 23, 1892. It was made by A.D.
Muehlmatt of Cincinnatti, Oh. I got it from the family of a
Seneca Indian who learned to engrave as a WPA project in the
1930's. I was told by John Warner ( Jewelry Engraver, Deceased )
that the rotating ball blocks were " invented " by an
engraver named Gerry in New Orleans. I saw a block which belonged
to Mr. Warner that said " gerry " on it. It goes bak to
about 1925-1930. If I'm not mistaken the non-rotating type blocks
go all the way back to Paul Revere's time. I was told by John Warner ( Jewelry Engraver, Deceased )
that the rotating ball blocks were " invented " by an
engraver named Gerry in New Orleans. I saw a block which belonged
to Mr. Warner that said " gerry " on it. It goes bak to
about 1925-1930. If I'm not mistaken the non-rotating type blocks
go all the way back to Paul Revere's time. Luis, you might also find a "degauser" at shops
such as Radioshack...just like you had one there. Frank Hendricks
once said that the old engravers used oil of wintergreen not
because it smelled so good but because chips would not stick to
the tool...don't know that this applies to the synthetics now
available. Try to get a degauser or tape eraser. SW Hello-Can someone help me with this question? I engraved my
own personal gun with a star trek theme. Can I send pictures of
the gun to a magazine or book for publication, or will I get into
trouble with copyright issues? Thank you- Billy Bates Mostyn, there are severeal ways to go about it, depending
on your base metal. good quality inks, are real durable, some
metals you can use an oxidizer to chemically blacken the surface,
and then re-polish the top, some people use various paints, but
depending on high fine your engraving is, the paint my "pull
out" when you try to wipe it off the flats. the most durable
paint that I know of is the two part epoxy kind, such as used on
RC airplanes, but it is a pain to use, but for some appliations
it is virtually indestrucatble It sounds like your graver is magnitized. You need to
purchase a demagnitizing tool, like watchmakers use. The other
option is to buy a soldering gun, the kind that looks like a hand
gun. the way you use it is to place your graver through the
opening that the two wires that eventually attach at the end used
for soldering, press the on trigger and slowly pull it through
the opening without touching the wires and this will demagnitize
your tools. The weather has gotten colder here and we've had our first
significant snow. The roads are slick as glass and of a sudden
I'm having all sorts of chips sticking to the tip and face of my
gravers. Is there a simple way to deal with this? O yeah, hey thanks Scott - much better. I'd like to ask
another question about blacking the background, what is best
substance/method to use? thanks Mostyn Mostyn, if the belly (or heel)is dragging the back of the
cut, it is too long for the radius scroll you are cutting.
Shorten your belly angles up, normally 1/16ths is long enough,
and way too long for smaller stuff Hi all Nice forum, I hope someone can help me, I'm slowly
progressing in hand engraving and I have one main problem, I cut
nice clean cuts, but the belly comes along after and drags all
the edges, I guess I can't be sharpening correctly? I tried to
emulate Mr Meek on how to sharpen and have read several other
books but still same result whatever angle I put the heal/belly ?
thanks in anticipation Mostyn (Wales UK) D. Roberson, I don't know if anyone emailed info on Sugaya
to you but here is what I have. There was an article in the June
1975 issue of GUNS Magazine about a 28 ga. Model 12 that had been
engraved by Sugaya. It was stated that Sugaya did a lot of
engraving for Jaqua"s Sporting Goods in Findlay, Ohio and
that Sugaya worked in Tokyo. You might be able to get much more
info from Jaqua's. Regards, Sam. I'm just starting in engraving and am looking for some
video instruction. I'd like to find a reasonably priced set of
videos from GRS. I've been reading this forum and it's great.
thank you I am looking for any information on an engraver named Hyroo
Sugaya. Any information would be appreciated. Are there any members that engrave that are also from
Arkansas? I have a job for one of them that I am not able to do
at present. Patricia, the wriggle engraving is done with a hand-pushed
flat chisel that is rocked left and right as it is pushed along.
You will want to pencil in some guide lines to follow to make the
design look right. Some practice on a sample plate should get you
started. The width of the flat chisel is determined by how wide
you on the design element to be. I highly recommend that you get
a copy of James Meek's book "The Art of Engraving".
Available from Brownells (google search) and probably some of the
big book sellers online. Good luck. Sam Hello, all! This is my first time on your site. Thanks for
providing the service! My husband and I are traditional
pewtersmiths and I am beginning to do some folk art engraving on
plates and mugs. I'm particularly interested in wriggle work
engraving, but I don't know where to begin to find the
appropriate tools. Currently, I'm using a simple diamond point
stylus. Can anyone help? Thanks again! PAT Sam: Aye, there's the rub, eh? Phil, try Boone Trading Co. in WA. Try a google search.
Luis, that is what you get for displaying your work...now you
have to produce! Regards, Sam. I had an interesting experience this weekend when I
displayed some of my work at a gunshow. An accomplished
knifemaker came up and looked my samples over and asked if it
would be "ok" if he came back with a magnifying glass.
It didn't make any difference to me. He came back and looked the
stuff over real good and now wants me to engrave a couple of
knives for him. Have I crossed a threshold here? At the time I
was pretty laid-back about it but now, thinking back on it, I
have to say it was a bit unnerving. I would like to know a source for composite ivory for
scrimshaw. Particularly in the form of tusks and teeth. Sam - thanks for your help on the french gray - I'll do
some experimenting. I've got the nickel plating kit and a bead
blaster, so I'll try some inlay after plating. Thanks again. John I call it brass spring stock for lack of knowing what it
should be called. I made my chisels from the brass leaf spring
from an electrical switch. ??? Sam Sam ,, what are brass "spring" chisels. I just
use normal brass rod for inlay and shape as necessary. +++
thanks_ Scott John, my favorite grey method is to let someone else do it.
Most of the guns I engrave are finished by someone else. Their
usual method is to rust blue then remove the blue with naval
jelly or some other rust remover. The hard work comes in rubbing
with an eraser until the grey is uniform. Wax works fairly well
to protect the phosphotized metal(grey area). The phosphoric acid
in the rust remover does give a little protection but not enough
on its own. Scott, the secret is in the brass spring chisels
(which will not mar the plating) for shaping the gold...and using
electroless plating which only adds about 1/3 of a thousandth of
nickle. The electroplating method has a copper layer first and
adds a good bit more thickness not to mention uneven plating.
With electroless nickle plating the surface that goes in is the
surface that comes out...it will NOT cover mars or other
blimishes! Sam Sam - with regard to the gold inlay and french gray - when
you don't do the nickel route, may I ask what is your favorite
technique for traditional french gray? I've read nitric or
phosphoric acid as one method; or blue then remove the blue. Do
you have an alternative method? Then do you lacquer - or how do
you protect? Thanks for your help. John WOW Sam, that's really incredible. I guess you get my vote
for most talented engraver for being able to successfuly do
inlays into plating John, I have inlayed both line borders and animals after
electroless nickle plating. The cavities are prepared as usual,
plated, then the gold inlayed. Use brass punches and for trimming
make a chisel from spring brass material such as you might find
in an electrical switch. This will trim the gold without marring
the plated finish. I found the animal inlay worked fairly well
but the flush line borders are very hard to trim smooth and make
look really good. It does work tho. Sam Is there any method of using the nickel plating for the
french gray finish with gold inlay? Has anyone plated first and
then somehow inlayed gold. If this is not possible, then is the
french gray technique of acid treatment and lacquer finish the
only way to get gray and gold? hi im from sydney australia and i also am a hand engraver i
am a 24 yr old mother of one who is just starting out my own
business any one have any useful tips for me ? Thanks. Sky I am presently having some fixtures made up to work with
engraving vises to aid in holding firearms and parts to be
engraved. These are copies of fixtures that I have used over the
past 30 years in engraving. I have not got prices yet, but I will
have soon, if any engravers are interested,contact me by e-mail
and as soon as I have the photo sheet and price list ready, I
will e-mail them to you. You cn write me at: J.R.French, Artistic
Engraving, 3324 Rustic Dr., Irving, Texas 75060 Eric, I vote nay on the rotary. It just doesn't give you
the same control and look. Chasing hammer and gravers are the
cheapest by far but many people who are going to do a bit
purchase one of the air systems. I have found GRS equipment to be
very satisfactory. The air powered equipment will significantly
speed up the learning curve, especially if you have contact with
an experienced engraver or can take a class. I want to learn to engrave my own guns and would like to
know what equipment to buy, can you send me in the right
direction? And are rotory tools a good idea? -thanks, eric. Can anyone help me find a copy of "The Book Of
American Engravers" anybody? Is there anything more resilliant than engraving wax which
can be applied to an engraving? - Ideally in various colours. Any
help is much appreciated. I'm looking for a used engravers block. Do any of you know
some good sources to find used egravers tools? kent Just letting you all know that Frank Hendricks passed away
last week. He was a good friend and great engraver who will be
missed. D.C. Lance, Johny Weyerts advertises in the "Engraver" His phone # is 1-800-687-2969. No web site
or e-mail listed. If you have not joined the Firearms Engravers
Guild of America,you need to. The "Engaver" (our
quarterly publication) contains a lot of information also. You
also need to attend the annual show in Reno, Neveda. The show
dates are Jan 23-25 2004 Answer to: Carmine Lomardy If you are interested in
fixtures for holding gun parts contact: Carrell Rowles..5117
Browns Mill Rd., Rustburg, VA 24588-2574...434-821-8694. His
tools are well made and they are not expensive. (ID bracelets, pendants, etc). I am considering purchasing
a pantograph or computerized engraving machine....but wondered if
it is easy to do letter engraving by hand. _____there are three
things you are asking about I think, the pantaograph work whihc
is easy and fast and looks like it on the finished product
(scratched on the surface) and the the real cut engraving that is
done 100% by hand or hand controlled with somthing like GRS,
Ngraver, or Lindsey. yes you can learn 100% hand engraving, but
it will take you years. I have taught and used 100% hand methods,
and for the last 10 years I have taught and used the GRS
Gravermax and I can tell you, you will be able to perform in a
week with a gravermax what will take you 12 months to get your
hands to push 100%. _______________ Anyone? How long would it
take me to get good enough, to engrave text by hand using GRS
power hand tools? ___________If you have average manual
dexterity, I would say within afew weeks of practicing after your
GRS class you could cut script that will make your customers
happy.....you no doubt will be ever dissatified until you can
reall cut perfect_________ If it's easy, I won't buy the other
equipment and save myself some money and just stick to
hand-engraving. _______ as I said above if you mean 100% hand
engraving, I would give myself a year of serious practice before
venutirng onto customers work using some sort of psoer assist,
then weeks_______Also, is it hard to do inside ring-engraving by
hand?_____No___ Is it best to use a microscope for that? ______it
helps a lot but is not essential, you can get by with a #10
optivisor (3 1/2 power)_____I was drawn to hand-engraving because
I love the scrollwork designs and want to learn to do that...but
figure if I can learn text too that would be great. _____ sound
to me that want the Gravermax Oh - one other question: What equipment do you recommend?
Do you like the GRS equipment? What others are good? I want to do
a little research before I attend the class next month. Thanks. Hi. I will be taking a week-long GRS engraving class next
month to learn basic hand engraving. I also own a jewelry store
where we receive requests for basic engraving of people's names
(ID bracelets, pendants, etc). I am considering purchasing a
pantograph or computerized engraving machine....but wondered if
it is easy to do letter engraving by hand. Anyone? How long would
it take me to get good enough, to engrave text by hand using GRS
power hand tools? If it's easy, I won't buy the other equipment
and save myself some money and just stick to hand-engraving.
Also, is it hard to do inside ring-engraving by hand? Is it best
to use a microscope for that? I was drawn to hand-engraving
because I love the scrollwork designs and want to learn to do
that...but figure if I can learn text too that would be great.
I've never done any engraving at all so am totally new to all of
this. Thanks in advance. GRS has two instructors that teach Basic Western style
engraving, Diane Scalese and Manny Gonzalez. They are both
oustanding. Contact GRS if interested. 1-800-835-3519 Hey guys/gals, read more of the site after posting my first
message. As well as being new to engraving, I am really new to
bulletin boards. Just happened on this one trying to find
information on Johnny Weyert. I currently own a GRS System 3.
Would there be a high cost:benefit ratio to upgrade to the
Gravermax or Gravermeister? I currently am learning to build
spurs, buckles, jewelry etc of a cowboy motif. I am engraving
primarily on Copper, Brass, Nickel Silver, and Sterling. I have
done some engraving on the black steel. Kind of scared to tackle
a gun until I get some experience and a training class or two
under my belt. Thus the question about basic courses. Thanks for
your help and replies in advance. D.C. Did not see a reply to the question about Johnny Weyert.
Does he have a web page? Also are there other western engravers
(Spurs / Bits / etc. that put on basic engraving classes? You might try contacting Ray Viramonetz. He used to supply
them when he ran Hand Engravers Supply. He may have the name of
the fellow that made these. You can contact Ray
at:sgtvira@aol.com Does anyone remember who was producing jiggs or chucks or
fixtures or whatever you would like to call them, wood I think,
that would hold single action back straps. If I recall it was
back around the early to mid 80's. Or does anyone know if someone
is making anything like that now. Thanks for listning to an old
engrever. Carmine I just relisted my Jeweler's Handpiece for GraverMax/Mate.
Had a non paying buyer. The number is 2656641273. hello all i am looking for used tools.such as ball vise
also microscope,vise attachments,sharpening fixture, and anything
else i can find. please email or callme if you can help thanx Thanks Brian and Jim for the info. on the convention.
Hoping to see a lot of members there. The last convention I was
at was in Phil. about 20 years ago where I met John Amber, Colt
engraver Howard Dove, and Neil Hartliep. I really enjoyed the
show and looking forward to this one. JJRoberts: When looking for Motels/Hotels for the NRA
Convention, check out availability in the Weirton, WV and the
Steubenville, Ohio area....they are less than 50 miles due west
of Pittsburgh on U.S. Rt. 22 (a 4 lane highway), and about a 45
minute drive from the DLL Convention Center. (Hampton Inn,
Holiday Inn, Super 8) JJ Roberts The NRA convention will be April 16-18, 04. Held
at the David L.Lawrence Convention Center, Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania The NRA web site will have the information you are
looking for. I do not know if they have posted anything yet Question: I would like to know more about the NRA
Convention in Pittsburgh..where it is located, and a list of
hotels and motels in the area...Thanks, JJ Lee: Thank you for the information. Brownells does have the
leaflet and it is available online under the guntech section on
their webpage. Thanks again. Eric Eric, I haven't checked lately but a coupple of years ago
Brownells offered free of charge a leaflet covering several
different methods for achieving a grey. It is worth asking about. Hello I'm new to the forum but have been engraving for
several years (only as a hobby and therapy). I just wanted to
know the different techniques to achieve the "french
grey" color often used on engraved firearms; specifically
which methods are the most durable and the procedures to obtain
the best finish? In addition how do many of the better engravers
acheive the mixture of scences that are blued and french grey -
if that is the case? Iwant to engrave a Kentucky Rifle Brass "Patch
Box". I have never tried it. What gravers do I need and how
is it done. I have several years experience as a fine artist and
wood worker. It looks challenging. Thanks Gary I am looking for a used gravermeister with handpieces(
preferably quick change). Sam, Marty, Thanks for the responses. I have been putting
my ideas first on paper and some also on a practice plate before
cutting the intended object. The layouts do tend to vary between
these steps. I draw all my scroll designs out on a paper template first.
I then draw the main lines first onto the metal to make sure
things physically fit and make minor adjustments as needed. When
I am satisfied with the main movements I start to add my leaf
details and again make minor adjustments as needed. I draw
directly on the metal with a pencil. Sometimes I dust the metal
with talc prior to drawing as this makes the pencil show up
better but can easily wipe off if you're not carefull. When
satisfied with what I have I will now start to cut my scroll. The
design always looks slightly different on the metal then it does
on paper so you should stay awake and make minor design
adjustments as you cut. This has nothing to do with correcting
errors at this point but just seeing a better way as you go
along. Robert, I always draw the complete design on the metal.
That way I know that all the elements fit the space and each
other. Slips shouldn't be large enough to matter and the bigger
mistakes everyone talks of are avoided by careful planning and
drawing. Sa Frank Hendricks puts it, gun engraving is cutting a
predetermined path. Sam As a novice engraver I’m always relieved to find that
even the Pros make mistakes. In light of that, when you do a
layout for an elaborate scroll design do you draw your complete
design on the piece at the beginning? Or do you draw and cut a
piece at a time considering it may take some altering due to
slips? Lee Griffiths, After fifty years in the sign business I
have learned to love borders. You can't misspell them! With
sympathy Jack Badgero Lettering mistakes are easy Lee.......just tell the guy to
legally change his name. Now, I must admit that with this new definition of mistake
I have had a ton of opportunities to express myself creatively
with what might be called spontaneous design changes( you know,
the one where a wayward uncooperating line suddenly becomes an
unexpected leaf or baby scroll). I just hate it when I need to be
spontaneously creative in the middle of a lettering job hehe. ENGRAVER NEWSLETTER Hello to All, where can i get
information about the Engraver newsletter? haven't been able to
find any on the web. Best regards Fernando, Spain. Amen, Marty.From time to time, I pull out the first gun I
engraved and just shake my head in disbelief. I could make a
dozen mistakes today and still never come close to the mess I
artfully "created" 20 years ago. I'm sure glad that gun
will never be seen by anyone but me. I was told by a great engraver many years ago......I NEVER
MAKE A MISTAKE.......I DO HAVE MANY LAPSES OF BETTER
JUDGEMENT.....BUT NEVER A MISTAKE. Isn't it funny what we call a
mistake at any given time in our advancement of our engraving
skills, we would have been thrilled to just be able to do that so
called mistake a few years earlier. I just received my current copy of the ENGRAVER and i want
to thank Shannon for another great job in producing this great
news letter . In every issue there is an operitunity to learn
from some of the guild members. some new ideas on engraving in
this issue Bob Evans has a very good article on gold inlaying
since i do a lot of gold work i am always intreasted in what Bob
has to say and i do learn new ideas thanks Bob .. nad Ron Smiths
article on the LUGER PROJECT was great. I dont think there are a
lot of people that knows what it takes to do a job like that to
engrave and gold inlay a fireaem like this and again thanks Ron
and then we go to Brian Marshals article on tha Steve Lindasys
air engraver. I use one and i know that every thing that Brian
says about it is true , i also think that the GRS equipment is
also good i started out my engraving business using a
greivermiester and it was good but there is always one better so
if you get the chance try one of Steves air gravers there is a
difference .. for those of you who havent been to the VINTAGERS
show in N.Y. yet here is a great opertunity to meet some of the
more prestiges gun collectors in the world and also for the FEGA
members in the east coast to meet up. you should try to make it .
.. well that is all i have to say except that for those of you
who are intreasted in seeing one of my latest colt saa projects
go to www.ckdforums.com and click on the fine embellishment colum
.. . thanks ron p. nott Dennis an alternative to the breaking off method is to put
a 20 degree rake angle on the face angle . This way when you cut
the line the curl will be forced to one side and not obscure your
line. This is how most toolbits are sharpened for lathe work.
Also you will find that when you end your line it will end much
cleaner and with less force. Another option on the chips is to back up slightly a 1/32
of an inch will do it and you can see exactly where your cut is.
Make the correction if needed and continue cutting a short
distance and then back up briefly then cut ahead. One becomes
quite adept at this stitching motion rather quickly and often as
the chip grows and curls it start to curl to the side enough that
it no longer obscures the view. If that doesn't seem to work I
bend the chip back and forth a couple of times and break it off
or maybe just to one side and keep going. The more cutting I do
the quicker I get to my next mistake!! Marty, you've taught me a
lot but I have yet to master the no mistake technique. Maybe I
can blame it on Sam or Ron hehehe. Dennis. I also just break the chip off and continue.I use
very small wire cutting pliers or nail clippers or sometimes just
use a scribe to bend the chip back and forth to get it to break
off. My choice words only get used on mistakes. I've seen Marty's
work and it is flawless. Can I conclude that Marty really doesn't
know any choice words since he's unable to use them for
mistakes???????????????????????? Dennis If the ribbon of cut metal gets in the way and I
can't look around it anymore, I use a very "HIGH TECH" system of removal. I just break it off and coninue on my merry
way. Once in a while I will also add a very choice words to keep
me awake through the process but then again i usually like to
save those for when I make a mistake. But then again, I never
ever make a mistake............hhmmmmmmm Here is a rather elementary question: How do you deal with
the chip cast up in engraving. Particularly as it obscures vision
of your line? Our hand engraver has recently moved out of Vancouver and
we are looking for another one. We have been in business since
1977 (North-West Engraving Co. Ltd.). We have a solid client base
and a strong need for a hand engraver. Please email me if you
have any interest. Thank you. Sandra. I came across this Bulletin Board today for the first time
and think it is EXCELLENT. Perhaps I could help some folks out
who are just beginning to learn engraving. Or who already
engrave. Or are just "kicking tires" right now. I've
been teaching GLASS engraving around the country for about
thirteen years. In fact, my husband and I teach at Daimler
Chryler plants to their employees as part of a personal
enrichment program. We, Leisure Learning, Inc. will soon be
making a training video where you can learn to engrave on GLASS,
METAL, CERAMIC TILE, MIRROR...There will actually be TWO videos.
Beginning and advanced where we will teach you how to do relief
carving along with other techniques we've developed over the
years. There will be a kit available for $100 including an
electro (hand held) engraver which produces excellent, stunning,
elegant results. The videos will be $25 plus S & H. IF YOU
HAVE INTEREST IN LEARNING A NEW APPLICATION FOR ENGRAVING PLEASE
EMAIL US AND LET US KNOW. You will be contacted when the videos
have been produced. This should be Fall 2003. My personal
favorite is engraving wedding invitations on glass. The price is
$125...but I'd rather teach YOU to it! Many of our students have
developed a second career. Others are perfectly happy to just
make Christmas gifts, wedding gifts...engrave gun cabinet
windows, table tops, bathroom mirrors. Email us and let us know
if you'd like to be put on a waiting list. You might want to
include your phone number as a way for us to better serve you.
Jenny Robinson glassengraver@webtv.net. There are openings in my beginning lettering/monogram class
at New Approach School (Blaine Lewis) in VA Beach on Aug 11-16.
Need to call 800-529-4763 NOW or it won't happen. Every bench has
GRS equipment and it is strictly aimed at beginners. Lessons are
shown on a 50 inch screen tv and of course individual instruction
as needed. You won't walk out a master but you will be better off
than when you started. Mike I want to start engraving and would love to purchase some
used equipement to cut start up cost a bit. I would be interested
in any GRS or Foredom product. Thanks. Question for the engraving community: what is the history
of engraving, ball-vises? When and where were they first used?
Where they significantly different from what we currently have
available? Any information would be greatly appreciated - My
Thanks to All! John Do yourself a favor get a gravermax and a 901
handpiece,also you will need a compressor to run it. You can
start with hand tools only but it will take you a long time to
learn. The other suggestion I have is to take a class at GRS in
emporia. In a weeks time you will learn how to use the machine
and also how to properly sharpen your tool wich is very
important. I think that with this combination of tools and study,
with the proper amount of time practicing you can learn in a year
what would take you five years with traditinal tools. good luck If I wanted to start doing engraving on knives and watches & such. What would you guys suggest I get started with ( tool
wise )?$$? Not-so-short course on air compressors. It all has to do
with flow (i.e. the CFM rating at the pressure you are using).
Generally, the bigger the handpiece at a given pressure and
frequency of impacts, the more flow you need. The more flow you
need, the more your compressor is going to kick in and out (the
cut-in and cut-out settings are usually pressure switch controls,
not flow controls). The more it kicks in and out, the more wear
and tear on the compressor, especially if it is oil-less. An
indirect indication of not enough flow is a big pressure drop
while operating the handpiece (I don't really know what "big" means because it is one of those things that
"depends"). One way you can slow down the cycle times
and perhaps cool your Sil-Air down some is to add a "surge
tank" between the compressor and your Gravermeister or
GraverMax. Another way is to increase the cut-out pressure to the
maximum allowable by the pressure vessel and other components of
the system if you have an adjustable pressure switch. Surge
tanks, if ASME coded, are not exactly cheap, but they provide
more stored compressed air than the standard tank on the SilAir,
and therefore should slow down the cycle time. They are simply
pressure vessels just like the tank on the SilAir or any other
compressor and come in all sorts of sizes and with all sorts of
in/out port configurations. You can get them all sorts of places
like Grainger or you might even find them at Tractor Supply or
somewhere like that. All a surge tank gets you is the potential
for a bit better cooling on the compressor, because it still has
to run long enough to fill the extra volume, but now you will get
a longer rest time too for it to cool down. Keep in mind,
however, that once the pressure drops to the cut-in pressure, for
a given cut-out to cut-in pressure differential setting, you are
temporarily back to the same problem as you had with the Sil-Air
alone and if you press on with engraving during the pressure
buildup, the compressor still has to provide power for the
handpiece and simultaneously try to fill the tank(s) with any
excess capacity it might have. You don't want a surge tank so big
that you exceed the duty cycle on the compressor just to fill it
up though, because that is just as good a way to fry the
compressor as exceeding the duty cycle due to your engraving
demands. The cylinder head is going to get hot, especially on the
oil-less units, no matter what you do unless you blow cold air
across the fins, but if you are not exceeding the published duty
cycle, it is supposed to be able to handle the generated heat
without external help (unless you are engraving outside in
Phoenix in July at 3pm). The disadvantage of using a surge tank
is that it is not convenient for shows. If you are doing shows,
use the surge tank at home or in the studio, and use the Sil-Air
by itself at the show and just deal with the heat and cycle times
by maybe slowing down your engraving a bit (e.g. you can engrave
just as fast on a given cut, but stop more often between cuts) or
by trying a smaller handpiece with a bit lighter cuts. If you are
engraving so long at one time going full bore on deep/bright cuts
without letting your foot off the gas pedal that you still can't
slow the compressor cycle time down with a surge tank, (a) you
need a bigger compressor with more flow, and (b) I don't want to
be anywhere near all the flyin' metal chips! The same company
that makes the SilAir has an industrial version of that
compressor that requires oil, and they have versions that gang
together several of the compressor units on one frame with bigger
tanks to increase flow and storage capacity. If you go that
route, you have to be careful about filtering the air so it does
not mess up your GRS stuff. So, you can run into big bucks fairly
quickly with this sort of system, but if you want an extremely
quiet system with fairly good flow, it is about the only way to
go short of the megabuck rotary screw compressor. Fancy air
equipment driven by servovalves and professional automotive spray
painters actually use a refrigerated dryer/filter system to
remove water, oil and other contaminants on these systems. You
can get small refrigerated units at places like Grainger, but
that is way overkill for a graver. On all these systems, put any
additional water traps, mist separators, coalescing filters and
all that as close to your engraver as is practical (you don't
need all these little filter units if you have a good
refrigerated dryer anywhere in your air supply system). That does
two things for you: (1) it puts them close enough to you so that
you will actually look at them once in awhile and can see if
there are problems like water in the line that you need to
investigate, and (2) it will take care of most of the problems
that happen in lines, tanks and around orifices on the way from the compressor to the graver. Maybe you already knew all this and
it was more than you wanted to hear, but it is worth every penny
you paid for it! If I sound foolish please remember, I am a beginer. The
Germans, Europeans, and a lot of Americans engrave a flower or
Leaf that I have heard called the "Black Leaf" Flower,
or Scroll. Its sorta a bulbous flower on each side, and then has
lobster tenicals that shoot out of the top of the flower. Know
which flower I am describing? What I want to know is, What flower
is that in real life? I would like to see whatit is they are
stylilizing. Thank you very much. Mr churchill did a Colt 45 in
this Particular Flower. Is there a real flower like that? INFO ON Johnny Weyert needed. Does anybody know if Johnny
Weyert has a web site or email address? He instructed at the GRS
schools for some time and I am trying to find his contact
information again. Hi... I'm new to this group..Been looking for someone
familiar with old time engraving. I have a 1890 winchester with a
fully engraved receiver with a deer in a circle and much scroll
work. has an engraved nickle inlay in the rear stock heel. Rear
stock is straight with checkering. Rifle is fully nickle trimmed
with all original finish remaining. Factory letter says left
factory in 1898 "engraved, nickle trims". I had this
rifle for many years and can't find one to compare for value.
Anybody have any estimate as to value? Thanks, Len There is a way to fine tune the 901 handpiece from GRs.
Something like holding it upside down and turning the air back to
zero, and then slowly adding air back till the vibration stops.
Id this correct, or is there anopther way? My next question is,
how often should the SIL AIR compressor keep kicking off and on
during general engraving? Mine seems to get real hot and kick on
often. Any advice. Thanks a million, I really would like to
adjust my handpieces to operate properly and work effectly, so
all the information I could get will be greatly appreciated. You
all sound like a great group of people, and I love to engrave! Hi folks, I appreciate all the help I've recieved from this
group, (where to get alternate engraving materials etc,etc...)I
don't have the Meek book yet(The Art of Engraving) and I need to
see the different finished profiles of various gravers used and
their particular uses.Is there a web site that might have
drawings etc. of those finished profiles? The various angles
required and some visual clues would be of a tremendous help in
my sharpening/butchery of the various gravers.(Square gravers and
onglette in particular) Thanks, Rod WANTED: Hello everyone. I recently lost all of my equipment
in a house fire. Insurance paid, however, now I need to replace a
Gravermeister, hand pieces, hone, etc. Any used ones out there?
Thanks, Jace I'm a custom knifemaker interested in doing my on gold
enlay on the bolsters of the knives I make. I'm looking for a
swivel engravers block to purchase. Does anyone out there have
one they would be interested in selling? Please email me and let
me know the price, weight and condition,etc. Many thanks. Jerry
Corbit Looking for info on John E. Warren from Eastham, MA. I have
a friend who is looking to sell two Ruger .357 Blackhawks
engraved by J. Warren and would like to know what value these
pistols carry. They are both 4" bbl, blued and in excellent
condition. Many thanks in advance. Rod...Go to Lowes and get some sheet metal. They call it
Weld Steel. I got a 6in x 24in piece for $8.00. Just cut it to
the size you want. It mimics gun metal very closley. I am new to the art of hand engraving, and I love it! I
want to engrave on firearms especially. I am interested in buying
a good quality Gravemeister and a GRS magnablock, so if you are
quitting the business or just want to sell your engraving
equipment, please contact me. Thank you. Heather Just had an intersting experience engraving the slide on a
Glock pistol, and my advice to anyone thinking about doing the
same is: Forget it! That stuff must be made of carbide steel.
Hardest thing I ever did try to cut. I recently purchased an engraved derringer. I was told that
an engraver by the last name "Colenne", possibly first
name "Anthony", now deceased, but beleived to be a
Guild member from Fishers, IN. Any information would be greatly
appreciated. Thank you. Lee R; The 60 degree will give a cut that is narrower and
as deep as a 90 degree. Just a different look. I solder the round
stock to a piece of keystock for consistant indexing. Back in town and it looks like sharpening is the order of
the day.Eric, two questions for you. What do you use a 60 degree
for and with the round stock you use do you have a method other
than eyeballing to orient the graver when sharpening. To further
explain, with square stock fits nicely in the jaws of the
sharpening fixture and goes in the same every time whereas round
stock could go in anywhere in the 360 degrees. Just thought of
one more question, do you reshape the bottom into a square or
simply put heels on the round. In a previous post I was in search of some GRS equipment...
Thanks to this group I am now the proud owner of some excellent
equipment.What I need now is a source of inexpensive practice
material. ( and lots of it!!!) In one of the GRS tapes, Acyrlic
plasic was used.I bought some thinking I could save some money on
practice materials.It didn't work, it chipped out and is
unusable.So what did you folks use to develop your skills???
Thanks, Rod Luis: I make my squares and 60 degree gravers out of
1/16" round stock so the faces can get pretty small through
out the sharpening and re-sharpening. I've been told by a real
square guy that the sides of the graver will not come into
contact with the metal if you keep the face at a managable size.
I bet I could sharpen one that is so small the sides hit the
metal but I'd rather print this retraction. I just wanted to post a message that the GRS Equipment that
I listed several days ago is no longer available, it sold today.
I would like to thank all that responded and showed interest and
I would also like to thank the Engravers Guild for having a Forum
like this that is open to the public, This is what the Internet
is all about, free and open exchange of information, ideas and a
kind sense of community. God Bless to all. Luis: Something else ocurred to me about your sharpening a
square graver. If you narrow the face down by grinding each side
down at a 15 degree angle the face will be narrower than the
sides. These sides still have to follow through the metal you are
cutting and they would just push the metal out of the way leaving
a pretty ragged cut. It would act like a reverse heel for your
chip clearance on the sides. I think you will get much cleaner
cuts if you grind the sides to 90 degrees right behind the face. It's too bad John Barraclough doesn't have a
computer/e-mail. He would appreciate the comments about his
classes. Small cuts: Small faces on the gravers take less time to
re-sharpen but maybe only give the illusion of being able to see
the work better. The actual depth of a small cut is ten thousands
of an inch or less so in theory the face only needs to be around
that big. I sharpen the face to a seventy degree angle with the
idea that the steeper the angle the more strength in the tip. I'd
rather wear them down than have them break in the middle of a
cut. The face angle is steep enough that I have to tilt my vice
in the direction of the oncomming graver to see the metal in
front of the cut I'm making. A small sacrifice for a stronger
tip. I make my heels by drawing the graver over a piece of 1500
or 2000 grit sand paper at an angle slightly less than the angle
I hold it to make my cuts. This gives the angle of attack for the
heel. I rotate the graver a little while I'm drawing it across
the sand paper and It only takes two or three swipes to make the
heel. You can't hardly see the heel under magnification but it
works fine. Just some more ideas. I am looking for someone for hand engraving who can perform
good grade lettering (professional standards) in Arabic script
(will be provided) and floral motif border on the external
surface of a 5mm platinum ring. If interested, please return
email with examples of your work. Thank you. I have a complete GRS Gravermax and accompanying items for
sale. If you are interested I would be happy to Email an itemized
listing of all. All equipment is in excellent condition. I was curious if anyone out there has ever cut a beretta
92fs/96 and can tell me how the steel cuts (hard or soft) And the
same with a colt 1911. Any info or suggestions would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks Jason I can only add my positive comments regarding John
Barraclough's classes. He is extremely organized and passes on a
lot of information. Be sure and take his advanced class next
time. Just got back from John Barraclough's Basic Engraving
class. The whole class had great time and learned alot more than
we expected. Anyone who is just starting or wanting to learn to
engrave should take this class. The small investment of time and
money is well worth the instruction and guidance that is
provided. This particular class was held at Trindad State Jr.
College, here in Colorado. The folks there should be able to
answer any questions 1-800-621-TSJC ext.5616. Thanks for all the responses! This is helpful. Here's what
I'm doing now. Using a GRS power hone and one corner of a square
graver as the point, I grind down the sides at 15 degrees until
both sides just about meet at the point. The face is ground at 45
degrees and tapered back at 30 and 15 to give a better view of
the tip. While it seems to me that heel drag is a function of how
one addresses the surface to be engraved with the graver and is
an individual kind of thingy, as of now, I'm using a 15 degree
heel but may have to go to 20. Sometimes I amaze myself by how I
get stuck on a perceived problem and keep banging away at it
until I find a solution or, better yet, one finds me. In this
case, I was stuck on trying to figure out a way to grind the
sides of a square graver down in a parallel and equal distant
manner given the limitations of my experience and equipment. The
fact is I didn't need to do that! What I needed to do is grind
down the sides of the face. I think I'm on the right track now. Don, I tend to use the same face angle for most work,
unless the metal is real soft and gummy. I then go to 50 or so
degrees. When cutting really small scroll it does help to reduce
the overall size of the tool face so that the tool does not
interfere with your visual reference to the scroll being cut.
Large tool faces don't bother me until the scroll gets really,
really small, then it is very noticable. Sam I'm looking for someone who can engrave or stamp initials
into stainless steel golf divot repair tools. Have 2 that need 3
initials each. Thanks I'm checking out for a couple of weeks so I'll throw in one
last quick post. I have a tendency to reduce the size of the face
as I move towards smaller scroll. I am not an engineer but I've
always felt the height of the face needs to be at least as
big(deep) as the depth of the cut but not much deeper. It is
tougher to see over or around. I would like to check in during
the next two weeks but the last time I tried at a hotel it came
up restricted saying something about weapons. You evil bunch you. Sam, are you saying on very small engraving you will need
to reduce the size of the face or change the angle of the face? I also do my heels without power on the power hone like you
do Lee. I usually use a 50-55 degree face. I usually do my
cutting with an ongalette. Just something I feel more comfortable
with as opposed to the square graver. Just to add to the small conversation, I put my heels on
without any power on the heel. I am using a GRS power hone and I
simply swipe the graver across 3-4 times. I am trying more with a
20 degree heel to reduce heel drag. It's pretty steep and not as
comfortable as a lower angle but it will turn some tight corners
with dragging.
Luis, smaller does seem to be addicting. Doing the basic
grinding is something that must be learned, and how coarse or
fine your grinding wheel is obviously the controlling factor of
how fast your graver sides gets "eat" away by the
rotating stone. you may need to adjust yours up or down to get
the control you are needing for rough
shaping.-----------------------from there, the same thing applies
to cutting your heel angles, some heels are cut with a ultra fine
ruby stone, by just kissing the stone with graver, not moving the
graver more than 1/64 of an inch. of course doign the same on
both sides so that they are equal, and verifing that under some
form of magnifcation . that is for very small heels, you willl
need to adjsut your heel sized to the depth and radius of scrolls
you are cutting __________ Best, Scott Luis, I use a water cooled lapidary for shaping gravers.
Works fast and the tools never overheat. I find a water cooled
grinder to be a must have for tool shaping. Check with local
jewelry suppliers for a used unit. I got mine used from a former
hobbiest for dirt cheap. Luis, I think most of us go through that process. I
remember in my early years of engraving that large tool faces
affected me and I made them as small as I could by tapering the
tool lengthwise. After many years of practice the tool doesn't
bother me anymore and I use a square carbide with about a 65
dgree face and a heel about 7 degrees. I work under an optivisor
instead of the microscope which makes a little difference. I am
planning to try some really small stuff just for fun and think I
will need to taper the tool to a very small face. Good to see you
in Reno again. Regards, Sam. I got home from Reno with a strong impression that I needed
to do something about the scale of my engraving work. As a
beginner big and bold was easiest but as I grow into this art,
smaller and finer becomes more important. Increased magnification
helped. It's good to be able to see what you're doing. Now the
issue has become how to modify my gravers so that I can cut
cleanly in micro-scale. I'm haveing a devil of a time grinding
down square gravers so that I can cut and shade small scrolls.
Anyone have any tips? Using an unmodified graver with a 55 degree
face and a 15 degree belly under the microscope looks like you're
trying to cut scroll with a sharpened railroad tie. An
interesting challenge indeed! Scott, thanks for the tip on the aluminum tap magic oil. I
used to use wintergreen oil but the pharmacies seem to no longer
be carrying that and I found that WD40 worked similar. I heard
that wintergreen oil was determined to be too toxic to be on
their shelves any more. I use the Swiss Yellow tang
Glardon-Vallorbe high speed steel gravers and find the premade
various shapes to be seductively easy compared to cutting all my
own shapes out of carbide. However I do almost all of my patten
cutting using only a 2/0 knife for the borders and few flat
gravers of various widths for patterns. I'll start by making a
few different flats as they are my primary tool. I wasn't aware
of the cold welding factor but it seems as though I only have
difficulty with platinum and white gold. Yellow gold doesn't seem
to erode the tools too quickly. Any other tips would be
appreciated. Thanks About bright cuts. I use hammer and graver, when we want to
make bright cut we polish the tip of the graver with a sand paper
4 - 0,witch gives a mirror polish. We put the sand paper on a
hard surface and we polish the graver the same way we sharpen it.
Francis Heuse. I only occasionaly cut platinum, so do'nt know it
specifically, but first, what material are using to cut with?
this could be a big part of your problem. I think I would only
use carbide for platinum becuase of its decreased tendecy to
allow cold welding to the graver. Second, I am not sure what D-w
40 is,but if you meant WD40, then this is a very poor choice for
a graver lubricant as it is designed to spread and dissipate, not
stick and lubricate. Try Alumnum tap magic and see what you
think. I have used wintergreen oil in the past because of the
better smell, but the aluminum tap magic seems to hold up longer I do a lot of bright cut pattern engraving on platinum and
gold jewelry. I have learned much by observing engraved jewelry
that I have repaired or worked on over the years. I have observed
various levels of quality in the smoothness of different
engravers bright cuts. When I engrave platinum it seems that in
order to produce consistently mirror bright cuts that I have to
polish the engraver every several cuts or the surface begins to
appear dragged and rougher. This makes for a lot of polishing. I
use D-W 40 as a cutting oil. Is it normal to have to polish the
graver so often or should I use a different kind of oil or what?
The perfect mirror cut is my holy grail and I would be grateful
for any tips. Thanks \ Thanks to all for the help on the casting business. Call
Glendo and order the kit is the answer. A question regarding the techniques used by Remington for
their factory engraved F, D grades. What type of graver did they
use to cut the flared cut? Many of these cut flare out about .050
and then return to narrow. I have tried both a flat, which looks
like they used, when looking under magnification. But some of the
cuts arc right and then swing left, which is a little hard with a
flat. I have also used a 110 degree facet graver and seems to
work well, but is a little hard to control, flaring the cuts out
and back. The flared cut really give life to the patterns they
used. Any thoughts? I'm finishing up my first fully engraved firearm. I sent
off for the FEGA membership hoping to learn how to make a mold or
casting of the work. I have not gotten that yet and don't know
when it will come in. Can anybody help me out by telling me how
to make the casting or how to find out? Thanks! Mark Bell It has been a challenge to switch from being an artist on
canvas to an artist on metal but I am on my way and owe much
thanks to the many people who post here. I see many posts here
about where to go and what to buy. As a beginner it’s
difficult to decide on what you actually need, where to get it
and how much to spend. I chose the Classic Engraver produced by
Steve Lindsay http://www.lindsayengraving.com I purchased my
scope from Mike Little http://www.microscope-store.com my hone
and fixture from GRS http://www.grstools.com , pieces and parts
from hither and yon. This last week I was blessed with the
opportunity to spend a day in training with Steve Lindsay. I
learned more in a few short hours from Steve than I have in
months of reading and researching the net. I have a much better
understanding of what it takes to do the work and that’s a
good thing because people are finding their way to my door
already promising to give me all sorts of projects when I am
ready cut on something other than a practice plate. This art form
is going to prove a real challenge but thanks to all of the
knowledge shared here it makes it a lot easier for the beginner
to get started. Thanks all. Steve Ellsworth Ok, I guess you got me on your post Dan. I'm a new PC user,
from small town USA, and over the hill. I take everything as I
read it, and everyone at face value. Some day I need to get up to
speed with the world as it seems to be today. Maybe the
moderators can remove these 3 posts, and we can get back to
engraving guns. Good God. Might I suggest you seek medical attention? Have
you considered the possibility of safety glasses after seeking
medical attention? Hullo, I had been real happy to carve rings since I carved
Totem Poles and now I had managed to shave thin slices and chips
in to my eyes!! i tried rinsing them with water however the tiny
particals just dug! they might be gone or they might be in my
eyes I don't know... My money is tied up and there are no real
places to go for help unless it can be found by seeing if one of
you might know how to get all the engraving s out of my eyes...
but my rings and braclets look real nice. Thnaks Hi Bob, Police Supply store of course. BUT... not sure what
your wanting the Fingerprint ink for , but if its for
transferring patterns, a much easier alternative is Dykem Hi-Spot
Blue. it is easily found at any machine shop supply place or
catalog. works exactly the same, except the color is blue, and it
comes in much smaller tubes, a 20 year supply instead of the 50
year supply size that fingerprint ink comes in I'm looking for a place to buy Fingerprint Ink...Can anyone
help me. Thanks, Bob Hi, I'm wondering what the patterns on currency and typical
certificate borders are called. I'm referring to the very fine
overlapping line patterns around the edge of a bill. Any info
would be great. Thanks, Chris There is a graver max on e-bay item#2632082451 Hello Fellow Engravers...I spent the week-end with the
Blacksmiths of the Potamac which I am a member of. I did a
demonstration similar to the one I do at a gun show. Lot of
enthusiasm. This time I brought with me copies of our newsletter
The Engraver. The people were absolutely amazed at the talents of
our members. I told them that the engravers here in the United
States are as talented as anywhere else in the world. I'm interested in buying used GRS equipment.(Gravermax,hand
pieces,gravers,sharpening system, in other words,if someone wants
to abandon this field and explore another, I'd like to try my
hand at engraving.......... Thanks, Rod I took a hand engraving and jewelry repair course years ago
and I miss the hand engraving very much I loved doing the detail
of all the flowers and designs. I am looking for someone to help
me get back in it preferable in my area. If anyone can help me
please write me at Erniecloe@aol.com put HAND ENGRAVING in bold
letters because I get so much junk I don't want to miss it.
PLEASE Thank you! Thank you for producing such a down to earth site. As a
writer I can tell you are a skilled communicator. Thanks again.
http://www.business-communication-skills.com. Iam seeking someone who would be interested as a guest
speaker for the San Diego Lapidary Society who has taken up the
art of carving Tombstones, preferrally using the less modern
methods..please contact me at the number I have provided in this
message between 4pm & 9pm on tuesdays or thursdays. Thank
you. Iam seeking someone who is willing to volunteer as a guest
speaker for the San Diego Lapidary Society who can hand carve a
tombstone and is willing to come share your experinces with the
club. Please contact me at the number provider between 4pm - 9 pm
Mondays, Tuesdays or Friday's evenings. Thanks you very much Hey! Nice site. If you are ever in Las Vegas let's play
golf. lonniejames@hotmail.com.
http://www.las-vegas-golf-club.com. Fernando, most blueing or blackening on steel is done by a
hot chemical bath or by what is known as rust blueing. Stainless
can be blackened but I am not sure of the process. I suggest you
locate some gunmakers in your area and get them to tell you what
is available for you to use. Regards, Sam. hi everybody, althoug i'm not an engraver (jus |