FEGA Home I can't stand all day anymore. I have a stool that is so high it is almost the same as standing and I use a microscope. I do a lot of muzzle loading barrels that are as long as four feet long .I have the large ball that weighs about 45 lbs. when I am doing a barrel I have rails that I clamp on my engraving bench that go almost all the way around me. The barrels rest on the rail and I can swivel them about 150 deg. this works better than anything I can figure out except standing. But on long barrels you still need some kind of rest. I'm trying to figure out how to engrave laying down. Any ideas. Berry Hands ought to know. jerry huddleston <huddlestonjerry@msn.com> Baker City, Oregon 5415232593 - Wednesday, December 29, 2004 at 23:52:45 (EST) BR Engraving, My question is are you trying to engrave this barrel sitting down? When I engrave barrels or any other gun part, I stand. My vice which is 45 pounds sits on a pedestal made from four 2x6's, sealed with quarter inch plywood top and bottom, filled with concrete. It is much easier to move around the vice. On gun receivers and other gun parts, I can cut a scroll in one pass without stopping. The only time I sit down is when I do my layout on the gun part. Try standing up: you'll save your back. I have talked to many engravers over the years and I hear them talking about their bad backs. The reason for their bad backs is that they spend their time hunched over a vice. You can work standing up whether you use hammer and chisel, hand tool, Gravermiester, Gravermax, Gravermate, or Ngrave. Good luck, Billy Jo. Yours truly, J.J. Roberts J. J. Roberts <jjrengraver@aol.com> Manassas, VA 703-330-0448 - Wednesday, December 29, 2004 at 14:49:40 (EST) I have been engraving for only 8 months and have been practincing diligently..I have a problem that I don't know how to approach. The problem is when I try to engrave on the end of a gun (in this case a shotgun) my vice seems to be inefficient. The reason for this is because when i swing the vice with the gun barrel in it i always seem to be bending over and stretching to reach the area to be engraved. I was wondering if there is anyone out there amongst you talented people that know of a way to solve this. In other words, is there something special a fella can build so to keep the work in front of him instead of haveing to reach for the dagone area, In Minnesota with a very sore back thanx all and happy new year. BR Engraving <billyjo@sleepyeyetel.net> Hanska, Mn 507-439-6254 - Monday, December 27, 2004 at 18:36:04 (EST)
i want to wish everyone in the Guild a "Merry Christmas", & a "Happy, Healthy & Prosperous New Year", & keep up the good work! "WANTED" LOOKING FOR AN ELECTRIC CHECKERING OUTFIT--MUST BE REASONABLE--THANKS--JIM Bernard. I have used the Gold Lode from Brownells in engraving and it looks good and stayed in my shotgun for several years with no touchup. While I am here, I have an Olympus Scope with a flourescent Lightring for sale. It has 10XWF lens for $350+ shp Contact me at Longline@lightbound.com if you are interested. This is a great engraving scope Bernard. I don't think gold could be burnished into shell but soft lead wire of close diameter might work. Polish to a high luster with fine abrasive paper and selective pen plate first with copper then then gold. Gold adheres betteto a copper flash. Be sure to leave a small piece hanging out for a ground lead. Spot electro plating is done with a pen plater(Rio grande) or Texas plater. Metal should be fresh sanded and degreased with alcohol At any rate try to get the lead to stick before thinking about plating equipment. A probable and practical alternative might be to just brush in 24 kt gold lacquer (Gold Lode from Brownells). I havent tried any of this just some ideas off the top of my head. Hope something works! Jim Bernard, I haven't heard of anyone in the FEGA family inlaying into shell with gold. I would think the shell is too fragile to take the pressure needed to press the gold into a dovetail in the shell, assuming one could cut or scrape a dovetail into the material. It would be an interesting experiment. Sam I have a GRS ring light and a .5 objective for a Mieji scope for sale - Please let me know if anyone is interested. Both pieces are basicly new...... Chris shell inlay. I need to engrave fine details, but I can't have the details disappear (shell is different from metal and doesn't show the engraved lines as well), so I want to fill them with something, but neither do I like the flat look of black wax or india ink, which is the accepted means in modern shell inlay on guitars. But I was looking through Meek's book, and noticed the chapter on inlaying wire. That would be rather cool! But, again, shell is not steel. As he demonstrates, gold wire and gold sheet taps well into steel. But shell is soft, I think I read in a book on shell inlay that it is a 3 on the Moe scale of hardness. Will the shell hold in the gold the way steel does? If I prefer to save money, will it hold in brass? Dix gold? Silver? Even copper (I'm doing an inlay of a violinist, and the bow is too long and thin to cut of shell and would be easiest to engrave & inlay over everything else)? Or is copper too hard versus the shell, and I'll just end up chipping the engraved cavity in the shell (the shell is .06" thick, which should help, it's not veneer thin)? Any suggestions/reccommendations? thanks! -Bernard
Jeff, You should go to Reno, NV the end of January to the Firearms Guild and Gunmaker's Guild show at the Silver Legacy. You will have the opportunity to see and talk to a large number of engravers and see their work. I am sure you would find it worthwhile. Hello, I am hoping someone can offer me some guidance regarding locating an engraver. You see, this winter I am commissioning the creation of two custom made rifles (one for me and one for my father). Next year, it is my intention to begin the process of having the rifles engraved. The ultimate design has yet to be determined and, in fact, that is one area where I need help. However, I can say that I am seeking to have the engraver incorporate my family's crest into the design so that ultimately the rifles will not only be working guns but will become family heirlooms to be passed down through the generations. The guild has funds available for scholarships for 2005. These can be used for seminars, short classes or extended classes. The award is based on academic merit, financial need, occupational intent, or experience, or a combination thereof. Applicants must meet the following criteria: a. minimum age of 16 years or older. b. FEGA members given preference. Applicants must include the following: a. Applicant's name, address, city, state, zip, and phone number b. Class, instructor (instructor should be a FEGA member) and school c. A statement describing your interest in firearms engraving and why you are applying for this scholarship. Applications must be post marked by Friday, Dec. 24, 2004 Send applications to: FEGA Scholarship c/o Jim Blair PO Box 64 Glenrock, Wyo. 82637 For more information by phone or e-mail: 307-436-8115 or jblairengrav@msn.com Hi Laurie, You can indeed get by with just the tools you mention. I did so for much of my first 20 years or so.... but doing it this way cost me 3 carpal tunnel surgeries, two elbow releases, and shoulder surgery. I seriously doubt I would have found these surgeries necessary had we had the level of pneumatic tools available now, available to me 35 years ago. There are many more reasons for the almost unanimous switch over to power assisted pneumatic engraving tools. One is the "McDonalds mentality" that prevails in the world as we know it now. Gotta have it/learn it RIGHT NOW! The learning curve (think: time spent to become reasonably accomplished ) with the power assisted tools can sometimes be cut by as much as much as 70%... Someday it may be possible to learn even faster, by osmosis, or hooking brains together in some way to transfer skills - but in the meantime this is the fastest method. Another is that most of the students I see these days are well over 40 years old. They don't have a lot of patience. They don't have a lot of time. If they intend to get a body of artwork together during the time that they have left, they've got to utilize anything that helps. Power assisted pneumatic tools do... Still another - there are about 90% less accidents due to slippage. This means less stress on extremely expensive or important jobs. It also means you are much less likely to need a blood transfusion. I can give you at least half a dozen more reasons (speed, accuracy, etc.), but these should give you an idea. Brian P. Marshall <instructor@jewelryartschool.com> Stockton, CA 209-477-0550 - Monday, November 29, 2004 at 21:21:27 (EST) Hi everyone, I have for sale 2 tapes I purchased from FEGA. They were viewed once, which was today. I should have realized that these were geared toward firearm engraving, (dah) which I do not want to do, I would like to focus strickly on jewelry since I am a goldsmith and the demand is incredible. First tape is # 16, "Engraving Basics" by Rex Pedersen Second tape is # 27, "Lettering" with Gil Rudolph and "Devices for use at the Bench" with Bob Evans They were $30.00 each or there abouts so I guess I would want close to that as possible since they are basically brand new. (My mistake I should have known better) Next question...is anyone using Engraver's "MagnaGraver"? I tried it out, great concept but it seems a bit large for my hand to control. Also I have read through the past 3 years of archives and the feeling I got was as a beginner like myself was to invest in a power engraving system because it would make the learning process go that much quicker. Am I correct in assuming this and why?? I have gone to the homes of 2 semi retired engravers for the jewelry trade, both in their 60's and all they have is a gravers ball, sharpening stone, (no hone) and basic hand push gravers set into mushroom handles. This is how I was going about my practicing but if everything I have read in the archives is true then I need to invest a lot of money into power equiptment. Please Advise. Thanks much, Laurie p.s. if anyone is interested in these tapes please contact me through my e-mail...thanks again. Laurie <anette@peoplepc.com> Enfield, CT - Monday, November 29, 2004 at 18:25:30 (EST) Does anyone know the current contact info for an engraver friend of mine, Lee Dufresne? If you do and don't feel comfortable sending it directly to me please let him know Stan England is trying to reach him. Stan England <stanenglandengraving@msn.com> Hillsboro, OR 97124 503-681-8458 - Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 12:58:37 (EST) Chris, Thanks for the information. Jay Got a couple of questions that have been floating around in
my head for the last few months. Finally had time to get them on
the forum. Question one: Had a feller look at my work over
closely the other day. He liked it. That got me to thinking---I
know, that can be dangerous---when you look at someone's work
with a hand-held magnifier, what are you looking for? Question
two: In your mind, with regard to scrolls, what is the difference
between engraving and "bank note" engraving? Luis Chris, contact GRS abouut the courses, I suspect it will be
a week or so before they work out the details for the application
process. Jay, there are two choices initially, power assisted or
all hand power. For hand you need a few gravers, some mushroom
shaped handles, a chasing hammer and lots of time to practice. I
learned this way, made my living for over a decade with these
methods and taught basic engraving classes this way.
__________________________________- the other option is power
assisted engraving and names like GRS, Ngraver, and the Lindsey
AirGraver are your basic choices. Add to that,GRS has 3 entirely
different systems to offer, the GRavermeister, GRavermax and the
System III. Each of these offereing from the various makers have
their various pros and cons, based on user preferences and the
type work being performed. Additionaly, every system is capable
of superb work in the hands of a skilled user. I have now used
the GRavermax system for over a decade, and have now taught
probably 20 or more classes over the last eight years for GRS
using this system. I cannot recomend these classe highly enough.
You will leave after five days on Friday afternoon doing work far
beyond what I was capable of after a year of solid practice with
hammer and chisel. Scott, Thanks for the info. Could you forward the info on
how to apply for consideration for those courses,as well as the
NRA course you described. I appreciate you taking the time to
help out. Thanks, Chris I am facinated with the engraving I have seen on firearms.
I would like to pursue this art. Please recommend what equipment
I will need to get started, as well as any other advice you would
like to add. I truly could use all the help I can get. Thank you
in advance. Jay Chris, I assume you are asking about the Masters classes.
Not knowing what you've done in terms of progression in two
years, I really could not say. I know some folks that have taken
the GRS classes and doing some awesome work in less than 6
months. Those classes will have applicants submit a packet of
photos relative to their expereince and all participants will be
chosen by the teacher, either Churchill or Smith, on a totally
annoymous basis. Scott, Are these classes appropriate for someone like
myself with just a basic GRS course completed & 2 or so years
experience? -Chris I will be teaching a basic engraving class for the NRA
Schools in Trinidad Colorado March 21-25.
_________________________ Also, GRS will be hosting two Grand
Master's weeks. Ron Smith will be teaching one class, and Winston
Churchill will be teaching another. What a grand oppurtunity for
instruction and interaction. contact GRS for info about applying.
Hand Tool - Magna-Graver II with Vari-Pact Like New –
for $225.00 firm. Originally paid $325.00…in original box
with the 4 collets, and instruction sheet…used a few
times..then I purchased a new completely different system, this
handtool is no longer needed...postage/ins. extra. We are looking for photos of Terry Wallace to put in a
photo album to be displayed on his table at the Reno Show this
year. The album will later be given to his wife, Betty. If you
have duplicate photos (since the photos will not be returned),
they can be mailed to the guild office at: 3011 E Pine Dr
Flagstaff AZ 86004 If you have originals that you want to share,
you can either mail them to the Guild office with a note to
please return,(we will duplicate them and return) or scan them
and email to fegainfo@fega.com. Also include any info about the
photo if possible. Your help is greatly appreciated!!!! The "Palm Control" by Lindsay IS pretty
incredible... I have been working with the first one for a couple
months now. It can be snapped right on to either the Chasing or
Classic tools that are already out there. It's my favorite tool
on the bench these days. Took a little getting used to - but then
I've always found myself feeling around for the foot pedal, even
when I'm using a chasing hammer! Too many years of using foot
pedals for all kinds of equipment, I guess. Steve has also just
released a new "Bronze" version of the Omega. This one
is an entry level tool and starts around $500. We used one here
for the last class and no one wanted to share it without threats
of bodily injury from the next student in line. I beleive the
first one sold was purchased by Ross Mitsuyuki over in Hawaii
after that class. Maybe he'll post sumthin' about it? I know he
reads the forum. This new tool does not have the variable strokes
per minute (adjusted with a collar on the handle) that are on the
other models, but it is quite a bit more powerful. Perfect for
the titanium that Ross is engraving... For those that are interested the new Lindsay Palm Control
handle can be viewed at http://www.handgravers.com/news.htm Great
idea, can't wait till they come on the market. For sale: I have a GRS GraverMax complete set-up for sale.
I bought it, but do not have time to use it, or practice. It was
used very little it is still all but new. The hand pieces are
still in the original boxes with the original paper work. One was
never used. I will try to list all I have Starting with the
GraverMax unit itself with the air regulator and foot control
kit. I have 3 hand pieces witch are all quick-change tool heads.
The first is a model 710, this is a larger hand piece for
hammering and deep engraving. The second is a model 901, seems to
be the standard hand piece for all jobs. The third is a model 921 “monarch” This is the best hand piece that GRS has for
ultra-fine engraving. There is also a GRS ultra 850 high-speed
rotary hand piece witch spins between 300,000 and 400,000 rpm!
The Ball Vise is a Magnablock that is heavy duty and again, has
been used very little. It weighs in at 30lbs. And has a jaw
opening of 3”. I also have the 30-piece vise attachment set
for holding objects of every size and shape. This complete set
will come with a bunch of quick disconnect tool holders and
tooling. There is also a set of beading tools and a stipple tool.
If I find anything I forgot to list I will be sure to put it in
with the rest. This stuff all adds up to just under $3000.00 but
I am willing to part with it for much less. Please e-mail me with
your thoughts and if we can come to terms, I will be glad to ship
this stuff right out to you. Again this is all you need to get
started in this great art and it is all like new. I just wish I
had more time to use it. handpiece, QC holders and (large) Victor engraving block.
Great set-up for a beginning engraver or to upgrade your current
set-up. Complete for : $850.00 Rick Simmons -
handengraver@netzero.com Sorry Laurie, I am not teaching that anymore. It is still
available a few times a year. The curent instructor is Howard
Peacock. The school is in Troy, NC(montgomery is the name of the
county) I will try to find the link and post it here again.Take
care, Tom Oopps, my finger slipped, I meant to say that he is "teaching" this course... Thank you Marty I will give Ray a call on Monday. While
searching through the archives for any information that will help
me get going I came across a posting by Tom McArdle back in
February of 2002 in reference to an on-line course he is seaching
at the Montgomery Community College (in Alabama I presume?). I
tried to look it up on the web to no avail. Does anyone have any
idea if this course still exsists or another one of it's type?
Thanks, Laurie Hi All, I have a GRS ring light & .5 lens for a Meiji
microscope for sale if anyone is interested. Am asking 225.00 for
both pieces. Thanks and have a great day.... New person to the site. Hi,my name is Cliff Wightwick. I am
an appreticeship served copperplate and steel hand engraver
living in the UK. Been engraving now for 36 years. Have worked on
gun restoration and endless jewellery of all descriptions. In the
last few years I have started to engrave copperlates to recreate
old gun case trade labels. Copying originals and printing them
with an etching press etc. If any of this sounds interesting
please contact me. Cheers Cliff. will become part of your cumulative skill as an engraver
instantly. I know after 20 years of engraving that I am just
still just starting to understand lettering itself. It's one
thing to know how to engrave and another to know great lettering
style. I started with the "chicken scratch" technique
and eventually worked my way up to big bold brave cuts. Start
very slow and shallow and over time your cuts will speed up. By
making the lightest cuts possible in the beginning, you will
avoid doing any serious harm and find yourself more in control.
Why do in one cut what you can safely do in 20? Keep reworking
the line till it's as deep as you want. And if the graver ever
doesn't go where you want it, the tip is broke. Resharpening can
be constant sometimes, especially on white gold. I didn't know
how many tips I was breaking till I finally got a microscope and
could see the busted tip. Sometimes a bran new tip can break just
touching a tough metal. Like Tom says, Make the entry into
engraving gradual in your business and beware the broken tip that
is unstearable. Also finish the ends of the line first so the
graver automatically stops when you get there. Good luck, James
Roettger I am trying to find a company in the Arizona or southwest
area that can do high quality hot blue finish work for my
engraved parts. Thanks Art Laurie...give Ray Phillips a call and Ngraver co.he's in
conn. like you are and he can get to set up with what you need
and not what you don't need.There is a link under the sponsors
section Laurie, Grab a copy of James Meeks' "The art of
Engraving" that will help with the basics of sharpening
& I would suggest a graver with only a 45* face and then a
polished heel. I started with a "bevel" graver and the
heel was accomplished by polishing it on 4/0 paper(no sharpening
equip necessary except a stone). But before you do anything get
some more feedback and ideas from the board - These guys are very
great! Best of Luck, Chris I have been praticing my script letters with pencil on
paper and am now ready to start practicing in the metal. What are
the essential graver types and their numbers I need to order to
use for script and whom would you suggest purchasing them from?
Also, I will need a graver sharpener. Ilocated one on Brownells
for $37.45, should I purchase this particular one or is there
another type? Thank you all for your help. Laurie
FOR SALE**TURBO CARVER II W/SPRAY MIST**Brand New,hand
accident has forced sale.For more infomation and pictures please
e-mail me@ kreativekrafts@msn.com and I will be glad to answer
all your question and send pictures if you like.Thanks Kathy my excess eqpt sale continues: i have the mechanical
equivalent* of a Werther Panther Model P100/24AL air compressor-
http://www.werther.com/werther/panther/products/3.html - on the
block now (actually, mine has a bigger tank than the factory
model) These units are very high quality clones of Jun-Airs,
including most parts being completely interchangeable. They run
about 25-30% less expensive than Jun-Airs, largely because
they're made in Italy instead of Denmark, which means new
Werthers are merely exhorbitant, not ridiculous. *I assembled
this particular unit by combining two brand new, unused
compressor heads from a surplus dental supply with a single
control module, and mounted them on a brand new (NOT salvage)
200psi, 10 gal tank. It purrs like a kitten and will run a
Gravermax at full throttle without breaking a sweat. Unit has
less than a half hour running time during set-up and testing.
Crankcases topped off with new, fresh Jun-Air SJ-27 oil -if
you're familiar with these types of compressors you know the oil
is expensive- about $25/qt- but lasts years under normal
engraving use. New twin head Werther Panther models are about
$1500 (Jun-Airs are over $2000) Originally built for my own use
but I'm selling because I found a 3-head Jun-Air at a local
auction. Make offer. Thanks. Howdy Folks, I just read the reply from Tom to the gent
looking at a career change. Excellent advice Tom. I also just
wanted to say that for the last 2 years I have frequented this
sight and always found that the forum stuck to the topics
concerning engraving (notwithstanding the spam spew that everyone
has to deal with). I did not realize how nice that was until I
had a silly little question for another forum to answer (ebay
sellers forum). I figured that it was easier to ask people on
that forum than to wait on a reply from the mother company. When
I got into the forum I found that it was nothing like what I
found at the engraver's forum. There was so much personality
slamming, politics, and other topics that I could not get my
question answered. Note that the moderator of the forum was as
involved in the extraneous topics as the other participants. The
above was going around my elbow to get to my tail end. Short
version - Thank you for a well moderated excellent forum. I have
always received an excellent answer from the truly professional
people that participate here. Cudos my friends! D.C.
can you make an hour doing what you are doing now, and how
much work do you have? If you want to expand into engraving, it
can be a good move, but definitely should be a gradual one. A
preliminary step might be to check with jewelers in your area,
and see how much hand engraving they get done, and how they get
it done. I started locally, then got up a website which has
generated some business over the years. You will have to at least
get some basic tools and give it a try. However, investing in the
GRS,LindSay or Ngraver tools will help shorten the learning curve
quite a bit. There will be a significant invest ment though. Just
to let you know, lettering makes up a large part of nusiness
right now, including on baby cups, inside rings,pendants,
bracelets, etc. It will take awhile to get the practice and
experience you need to become proficient, and to develop a client
base. I wouls advise that your decision should depend on how
badly you just want to do it. If you are enjkoying your current
work and making a good living at it, why bother with hand
engraving? However, if you want to diversify, and think you have,
or will have, a passion for it, go ahead and pursue it. Some make
a very good living at engraving, but they didn't get there
overnight. I am now paying my bills exclusively through engraving
now, but i didn't get here overnight either, and i consider
myself very blessed to have the income i do from engraving. At
this point in my career, there is no other thing i can do that
would earn me the monmey i can make as an engraver, although i
bet you make more at what you do that i do as an engraver.
However, I love engraving, and would only give it up because of
absolute necesity.Hope this gives you some food for thought. take
care, Tom Professional calligrapher needing some advice. I have been
a calligrapher for about 12 years, being a calligrapher for the
state of Utah, teaching art at a local college etc. A year ago I
purchased a dentist drill and engrave on crystal etc. for
Dillards etc. at 'signing events' but have become very aware that
that is 'very basic' and 'crude' to what you do as true
engravers. I spoke a little to J.C.Randall and Sam Welch. Great
advice. My question. I am looking at really getting into the
engraving business, not as hobby, but as a shift in my
professional career. I have purchased the books "The Art of
Engraving" and "The Jewelery Engravers Manual" and
will pour over them several times. Spent many thousands of hours
over the years doing calligraphy and various types of art. Is
this a wise career move as I know that it will require well over
a thousand hours of diligent practice as well as a considerable
investment in order to do it the right way? I have been doing
this type of thing, over-all, for about 45 years but this is an
entirely new thing and I wonder what is the right thing to
consider and do. I live in Salt Lake City, Utah and so am away
from the hunting thing (knife and gun) but would consider other
things. Can I get your advice on what to expect to have to do as
well as the market since I am looking at it as a professional
move and not simply as a hobby working out of 'the kitchen'? I
have ordered the catalog from GRS Tools in Kansas and cannot
afford to make a stupid career decision. I have been very
fortunate in my career so far as my work is in many parts of the
world but simply want to expand. Thanks for anything you can do
to help me make a wise move or not make that move. Ron Tate me for more information. metal around the leaf to a lower level, leaving a 3
dimensional version of the leaf. I got an explaination of what I
think is it, over on the knifemakers engraver forum, only the
answer was from Spain, and the Spanish to English tranlsation is
not real good, but I think if set down and work myself through it
I will get it all figured out. I`m looking fore a engraver stereo binaculer microscope
with leight and a big engraving arear. Pleace contact me if you
will sell it. With regard Ole Bøgelund Rasmussen Denmark Mail
Boegelund@has.dk WWW.handgravering.dk msn group Danske gravører Heather, you want a copy of the book "The Art of
Engraving" by James B. Meek. Do a google search and you
should find it. If not, do a search for Brownells. They sell
gunsmithing supplies and also this book. I have found another permant marker with a fine tip.. It
has a .1 tip and In my opionion a much stronger tip. ITOYA
FINEPOINT SYSTEM. It is Japanese made. very nice JJ, You should talk to your friend Dennis, I bet he either
can get the bearings for you, or make you a set if they are not
available off the shelf. Mic them up and give him a call. I have the last engraving vise found at Winchester, In the
custom shop. send e-mail for pic's asking $300.00 Reply to Pilkington. The process you describe sounds like
or is very similar to Intaglio etching. Asphaltum is used as a
resist to the plate which is submerged in nitric acid for a time.
The asphaltum has been scratched with a needle like instrument to
produce the ink line artwork. The plate is then inked and run
through a press. I have done different techniques using real
pieces such as leaves and dusted rosin over it as a resist too.
So you might check into some Intaglio technique books for further
info. Otto hello, my husband wants to learn how to engrave guns.
however, my search for information has been fruitless. any
suggestions on books or websites or whatever to get the
information into his hands? I have a Victor engraving vise made by AD.Muehlmatt,
Cinn.OH...does anybody have the bearings for this vice? The
bearings are located in the lower part of the vise which makes
the top turn...any help will be appreciated...JJ cronites gelton transfer sheets work, confused in
Minnesota....and thanks I am looking for an engraver who can hand engrave on silver
a replica of a three page 3"x5" wedding ceremony
program - preferably on a hinged silver display (similar to
picture frame). Neil............ The Marlin is a neat little gun to
engrave. If you can find an older one, all the better but even
the newer ones are sweet. Good luck with it. I'm going to ask this question again, but this time I'll be
more specific. I need to get a new .22 rifle for my own use. I'd
like to get one that I can engrave on. I'm leaning towards a
Marlin 39 level action but I'd appreciate any advice as to what
make would be a good gun for engraving. I am not experienced in
steel or hammer technique. I do a lot of hand pushing through
silver and gold, so I don't want something too hard. While working on this engraving book, I have accumalated a
number of things in relation to various techniques over the
years. It seems I have forgotten a couple. My deepest apologies
to whoever might have given me this stuff for forgetting who you
were. _________________ Anyway, the first thing is the brass
plate. This was done by some sort of etchant process. As I
recall, this was done using real leaves. Something was done with
wax, or some resist to the leaf, and then it was ate away with
acid and then into the brass with leaf outline . It does appear
that their is some actual engraving along the veins. But thats
about all I know or can remember. _________________ The film was
used in some sort of transfer process, I am quite sure I jewelry
engraver showed it to me.. ( there are SO many ways to do
transfers, I think I could do a whole book just on various
transfer and layout methods) If you have any idea about either
one of these processes or who might have given this to me, I
would appreciate if you would contact me so that they get proper
credit and the method gets preserved in print. __________ thanks
Scott_____________ _________________ PS: the Posting Rules says I
am not allowed to post attachments... don't know why, so here's
the link. http://www.pilkguns.com/2004/brassfilm.jpg Evnt. a rotating airhandpice from Lindsay. Is there someone
there have somthing like this fore sale a litle bit chip but Ok.
Im a Danish Handengraver one off the last in denmark. So i have
wery litle kontact with other engravers . Please send my a note
if you have something i nead fore sale. Ole Bøgelund Rasmussen
Skagensvej 170 9800 Hjørring Web.www.handgravering.dk msn.group.
Danske gravører and handengravers. Description The last One at the Custom shop. Found in the
Custom shop at Winchester Repeating Arms Company, New Haven ,
Conn. in 1993 before the old building came down. This block was
the last one in the engraver area. The top of the vise is stamped
with the Winchester proof stamp and the Custom shop proof stamp.
sorry for the reserve price.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Select a picture I am about a year into constant practice. I couldnt afford
schools or travel, so I have done what I could with what I had.
Could someone tell me the best way to start lettering, what
tapes,books, or internet site is the best for reference. My last
question is, what is the best way to learn the right composition
for the area you want to cover. Thank you all for any help you
can offer. Jeff Joe Mancini, I tried to e-mail, but it wouldn't go through.
Let me know if i can be of service. Tom I'm searching for a gun engraver who can re-engrave and/or
restore engraving on Browning Auto 5 receivers. I would
appreciate any info some of the FEGA members may be able to
supply. for sale: Olympus SZ-III w/ 10x eyepieces and 0.5x
objective lens in excellent condition. (cherry, one owner! still
have original packaging and manual) also included is a Leica "S" model stand, 15" vertical post, 22" reach, modified to fit custom mount for Olympus scope. total new
value over $1500- make offer. avoid the uncertainty of eBay, buy
from a fellow engraver who has used this set-up and obviously
knows what works. Hi everyone New to the forum. I just found this forum, and
find everyones comments interesting. I am into glass etching. I
have a great machine I use. I am new at this as well. I bought a
Turbo Carver II w/ Spray Mist a complete system about a year ago
with the extra. I have never used this engraving system. Is there
someone out there with comments. about this system. About 6 weeks
ago I had a hand accident and I believe it would be best that I
just continue my business without the engraving segment. Any
helpful hint or moments. Also I would consider selling this
engraving set-up if anyone was interested. Any suggestions,
comments would gladly be accepted. Thanks Kathy Any helpful hints NEEDED FOR GUILD EXHIBITION We would like to computerize
registration at the Guilds' exhibition - "Firearms Engravers
& Gunmakers Exhibition." If you have a used laptop you
are willing to donate - please contact me at (307) 587-4297. We
need at least two laptops, PC compatible, with at least Windows
95 for an operating system. This would save the guilds' a big
expense - and would be genuinely appreciated. Jan Billeb,
Exhibition Coordinator, 22 Vista View, Cody, WY 82414 (307)
587-4297 the markers will write on any degreased surface, glass,
plastic, any kind of metal. I try to be real careful with the
tips though, if you try to write too hard with them, they will
get smushed and then you will get a bigger writing surface. the
Staedtlers seem to be more prone to this than the Sakura's but
they will do it to. I try not to let inexperineced people use
them, cause they write too hard Scott, Are the markers ok for sterling, nickel, copper,
etc.? Thanks, D.C. Allan, I can't imagine using a scribe for letter layouts
anymore. I use a red to draw my horizantal lines for the caps and
the lowercases letters,and the then use a red or blue to layout
the letters_______as the GRS class, that July class was for this
year, GRS is currently working on next years schedule, which is
supposed to be done sometime in October which is a big job
considering all the intructors personal scheudles, GRS show
schedules etc, But as to your question I am sure you would do
fine on this interemidate level class Scott, Thanks for the tip about the markers. I do a lot of
sterling trays and it sounds like a great alternative to the
steel scribe. I see you are teaching a knife engraving class in
July and I am thinking of registering, even if it does mean
Emporia in the middle of the summer. Is this for any level of
experience and what kind of things do you think you will be
covering. Thanks William, I gave up using pencils 15 years ago. You need to
got to a good art supply store, and look for some fine point
permament markers. The only two brands that I know of are SAKURA
Microperm (japanese made) and Staedtler Permanent Lumocolor
(german made) The Sakura is made in sizes 01-05 and the Staedtler
is made in S, M, L. You want to get the S or the 01. They are
both available in the normal colors. ---Sharpie markers available
everywhere, in their ULTRA FINE POINT, are way too big, they are
equivalent or bigger than the 05 or L in the Sakura or the
Staedtler.----- You will need to degrease the surface with
rubbing alcohol before you write on the steel, but it will stay
there until you either sand it off, engrave through it or use
alcohol to remove it. You might buy the FEGA tape that I did in
February about scroll design and theory and its use throughout
history for more info on these markers and scroll design. Chris
DeCamillus's tape on bulino is also an excellant tape and part of
the set.-----Oh, and while you are at the art supply store you
will find 100's of diffrent looking fine point markers that look
like they should work, but they are not permanent, a simple test
is write on your fingernail and then immediately try to rub it
off with your finger . If it smears, you don't want it. hello, im an aprentist hand engraver, i have currently just
finished my City & Guilds advance (credit) and i want to
either get into the gun or jewelery hand engraving in america as
the British market is slow at the moment, so any advice on how to
get into the american market would be greatly welcomed, please
feel free to eamil me, thank you HELP!! Please!!! i am trying to get some information on how
to draw very small scrolls and or patterns on revolvers. I would
like to know if anyone else has this problem, I have tried
different kinds of lead pencils up to 9h which can be used for a
very long time but,,,it does not copy well at all on metal. As
far as printers go I am not aquanted with laser printers, can a
person scan what he has sketched and then use a laser printer to
transfer the pattern to the revolver? Ohthers have tried to help
me on this but with little progress on MY part only, Is there a
felt tip mareker that has a micro fine tip a person can
use,,,very lost in Minnesota, Thank you all, I appreciate your
help. I'm looking for advice as to what kind of 22 I should get
for my own use. I am currently keeping busy engraving on silver
and gold and have no real plans to get into guns ( we're all
specialists these days ). As it happens I need to get a new 22
and figured I might as well get one that I could engrave. I would
gladly take advice as to what a beginer to guns should start
with...Good gun but not too hard. Hi, I am new to engraving and would like to know what kind
of tools I can use to carve patterns on pvc (pvc pipe). thank you Sorry for the "down time" on the forum. There was
some of the code messed up. Things are fixed now. $100.00 Drawing. Just a reminder that if you are planing o
making a donation of an item for the 2005 Auctions/Raffle
fundraiser You may as well get the info to me by Sept. 15th 2004
and be eligable for the $100.00 Early Bird donation drawing. So
far the odd are very good. This drawing is open to all FEGA & ACGG members making a donation of $50.00 or more. This is not for
the commercial exhibitors, they already gat a prize. I need to
have the pledge by 9/15/2004. See the ENGRAVER issue 63 page 6
for more info Mail e-mail or call. Roger Sampson CoChairman 2005
Auctions/raffle Fudraiser I have got 15 handgravers(13 never used),crocker sharpener
and the 'art of hand engraving' by Jmaes B meek.offers,I am in
the uk so posage to the usa ect will be extra.e-mail if
interested this story about Ngraver company owner Ray Phillips and his "NEW" bicycle...
http://www.norwichbulletin.com/news/stories/20040819/localnews/1074661.html
Thanks Tim and all you others who have written to me about
choosing the best engraving system. You have given me a lot to
think about...but I do believe I now know which one to
choose...my original gut feeling....I am glad you have reinforced
it. Thank you for all your help. Jill E. Jill E, I was in the same spot not too long ago, it can be
confusing to weigh all the features of each. What it boils down
to is, either will do the job you want to do. The GRS unit is
made to get people engraving as soon as possible, they offer pre
shaped gravers that fit their handles. It is well made and will
do any of the engraving you want to do. But the Lindsay AirGraver
is made by hand, one at a time, and in my humble opinion is the
best on the market. And Steve has addressed issues with his tool
that others have not given thought to. You can now get a handle
for the AirGraver that has all the control in the handle, no foot
pedal. This is good for people that have difficulty using a foot
pedal, like with a handicap. But the “Palm-push” handle
also solves a problem that is an issue with every power graver
out there, how do you operate a foot pedal while using a
“Stand-up Engraving post”. It is hard to stand on one
foot and use a foot pedal, with the new handle you have this
solved. Many engravers working on long guns prefer to stand, so
they can move around the barrel. If GRS had invented this idea,
would they have made it to fit the existing tools out there, or
would they have made a whole new tool and charged for it. Steve
made the new handle to fit all of the tools out there, so you
don’t have to throw everything out and start over. Steve
cares about the people that have invested in his tools, he wants
to help them to improve in the engraving arts, not just how much
he can get them to spend. That’s the real difference in the
two manufacturers, it’s your choice from there. When you are
ready to start to buy your equipment, send me an email, I have
found some suppliers that are cheaper for the everyday stuff you
will use that can save you some money. Be sure to put
“FEGA” in the subject so I don’t delete it. For
classes, check out Jewelry Art School, much cheaper then GRS and
he has both tools to try out. GRS has told me that I can’t
bring my AirGraver to a class, that kicked them off my list, I
don’t need to pay that kind of money to get a sales pitch
for a week. Brain Marshall is a great person to teach you what
you will need to know. Good Luck, Tim metalchipper@aol.com I'm new to engraving and am trying to decide whether to get
a GRS Graver Max or one of Lyndsay's tools. I need to know which
is better...as I am wanting to learn to do deep relief and bulino
and those nice carved leaf scrolls...and some lettering. I guess
I covered it all....and have any of you found any drawbacks to
either products. Thank you. I had better luck today with the transfer of inkjet printed
acetate onto sterling. I again put down a just opaque fresh layer
of white gouache then I took my acetate freshly printed from the
epson 2500 using the draft setting for a minimal ink layer and
very carefully, without smudging the slightly still wet ink
positioned it with scotch tape. Then I took a wooden burnisher
and rubbed it with no acetone this time. As I was rubbing it I
could see the black ink turn grey where I had burnished it. When
I removed it I had a perfect image. I could see ever pixel of the
print. The image was completely ready for scribing. Moral of the
story is I spent a whole day learning how to save myself two days
worth of layout work. i all most forgot a good thing about this method is you can
pickup and check to see how your design is tranfering.just put
some tape on one side of your transparency and add heat until you
get the tranfer you want.but like i said watch out for the hot
metal. laters Curt Hay, Tom whats up, James,if you are going to try the heat
method make sure the metal is very clean. i use acetone first
then finish cleaning with alcohol. then start the heat transfer.i
use a 3m transparency film made for lazer printers.i know they
make for inkjets to.before i got my lazer i used transparency
film made by 3m the # was 3mppm2200 but it is made i think only
for copiers. well i hope this helps. Curt I sometmes still scribe a design in acetate, and then put
some fine black powder in the scribe marks, and then use clear
tape to make a pull. I will put the pull down on a mixture of
grease and bees wax, or tacky damar varnish. I used to do all my
transfers this way, and still do script monograms this way, as I
can draw them faster by hand then on the computer. Tom ps Curt,
good to see you!:) like Tom i use a lazer printer to do my transfers. mostly i
use paper to make my transfers. i do use acetate sometimes if i
really need to see the placement of a design. but most times the
paper transfer works fine. to get a good transfer useing acetate
.i have found it take heat and lots of it. i use a iron set on
the cotton setting.it will take sometime to find out how long to
leave the iron on to get best transfer. but just keep trying....
i learned one thing paper is a lot better way to do transfers.
but if you are going to do acetate transfers WATCH OUT FOR THE
HOT METAL..... Hi I just wanted to drop a quick note to thank Roger
Sampson for the time and effort he took to teach a 1 week class
on 'Hammer and Chisel' engraving.It is so helpfull when those
that are educated in these skills give the information so freely!
I forget who said it but "You can't steal talent, it has to
be earned." Thanks again. Fred and Tom thanks for your replys. Fred when you scribe
through the at the end I am not sure I understand how the image
is transfering to the metal. Do you just press hard on the
transparency and it leaves a mark on the metal or do you poke a
series of dots through? I did got the overhead projector plastic
transparency and regular acetate, The stuff made for inkjet
printers held on to its' ink and did not transfer to the metal
when I rubbed the back side with acetone. However today I was
able to transfer an image on to sterling coated with a thin layer
of white guoache using regular acetate with the image printed in
reverse on an old epson 2500. I taped the image in place and
rubbed the back side with acetone on a Q-tip. A faint but clear
image appeared and I touched it up here and there with a pencil.
The coating of guoache made a receptive surface which helped
prevent smearing. I printed the image on the matt side of the
acetate. I used three diferent printers, one with new none water
soluble and two with water soluble ink and only one type of water
soluble ink succeeded in transfering. It would seem the type of
ink is everthing. Any other tips would still be appreciated.
Thanks On accetate-If you go to the office supply store you can
purchase accetate designed for laser of injet. They are used to
make overhead transpartences, you can scribe the lines, flip them
over and scribe fro that side. The print shop should have told
you about print overheads, I'd find a printer who knows his
business-fred James, I have used acetate to make the reverse image of a
design, but then a paper copy of that reverse image must be made
on a copier for the transfer to work. I would think if you use
acetate that is rated for laser printers, you should not have any
problems. The easier way is to have a program that will produce
reverse images for you, and a laser printer to print them out.
then you don't need the acetate at all. I use corel draw,but also
my HP scanner has a mirror option when accepting the scan into
the computer. Take care, Tom I am interested in learning about acetate transfers of
images as I am finding that computers can be of assistance in
laying out images and fonts. I did some experimenting and I can
get a faint and somewhat fuzzy transfer from an inkjet printer on
acetate which then rubs off when acetone is applied to the back
side with a cotton swab. I went to some print shops to see about
getting them to print it and kind of got the run around. (They
were really just afraid the stuff would melt in there machines
and ruin them.) One shop directed me to a store that has an
inkjet that can print on t-shirts. One experiment with printing
on acetate clogged up our newest epson printer but left the older
models ok. any help would be appreciated. Thanks I am interested in learning about acetate transfers of
images as I am finding that computers can be of assistance in
laying out images and fonts. I did some experimenting and I can
get a faint and somewhat fuzzy transfer from an inkjet printer on
acetate which then rubs off when acetone is applied to the back
side with a cotton swab. I went to some print shops to see about
getting them to print it and kind of got the run around. (They
were really just afraid the stuff would melt in there machines
and ruin them.) One shop directed me to a store that has an
inkjet that can print on t-shirts. One experiment with printing
on acetate clogged up our newest epson printer but left the older
models ok. any help would be appreciated. Thanks news ok thanks scott, much appreciated, The best way to remove barrels is an oak formed jaw with
rosin, but unless you are expereinced in removing barrels, I
would absolultely not do it yourself especially on pistols. pay a
real gunsmith to do it, its much cheaper than trying fix a warped
frame or repairing marred lettering What is the correct method of taking barrels off of
pistols? I was told to use brass jaws in my vice and also to use
rosin. Is there a better way? I don't want to mar anything as i
am quite leary of taking off the barrels vise similiar to the one used by Lynton McKinsey and shown
on his video instruction tape. Since he modified the vise shown
on the tape, I really only need the machinist vise and the
adjustable ball part. Please contact me at artg26@cox.net Hello This is a note to tell you new engravers who are
looking for a good scope, cheap cheap cheap. There is an Olympus
SZ for sale on EBAY. It will sell on Aug. 6 or it says it can be
bought now for $195.00 This is an unbelieveable price. This is
one of the best scopes ever made. It has an objective lens that
will give it 6 inches of working distance which Is great for most
engraving and background stamping. This Stereo Zoom Scope is
Guaranteed Even. Only setback is it does not have a light with it
or a Boom Stand but a 100W bulb and a gooseneck light will
suffice for the light and you can make a boom stand for less than
$100 or if you can't, I can make you one. I made mine and I have
one of these scopes that I bought from EBAY and I paid more for
mine too. It is a great scope with zoom up to 40X If you are
interested in this great scope Type in EBAY in your Search and
then go to Electronics and such and click on it and when it comes
up Type in 3831031921 If you want a scope don't miss this one.
Call or Email me if you need help finding it. Hi Neil____ I am little unsure what you mean that you are "interested in script engraving of guns." Script or
lettering of any sort, is typically a small part of the overall
amount time spent doing engraving work on a firearm. Scrollwork
and Games Scenes will normally alway be your biggest time
consumer. If you are interested doing gun work, you will learn
some quick basics of letterings in the GRS basic classes, but the
biggest emphasis is learning to use the tools and sharpen the
gravers correctly which translates into whatever style of
engraving you choose to concentrate on. I am interested in script engraving of guns and will be
taking my first class with GRS this October, 2004. Is
script/letter engraving a seperate item or part of gun engraving?
Sorry for my ignorance, this is new to me. Sorry for my Hello all, I have been testing a sharpening fixture by Les
Brooks.(minigun17@yahoo.com). If you are familiar with the
crocker style sharpening fixtures, you will have some idea of
what it is like. However, Les' tool removes the disadvantages of
those fixtures. His tool has calibrated markings for face and
heel angles, as well as a means for adjusting the fixture to
compensate for diferent tool bit lengths. This means the angles
are always valid, regardless of the variations in tool bit
length. Another advantage is that Les' fixture has rollers on the
base, so it is easy to move the fixture when sharpening the tool
bits. If you don't have a power sharpening system yet, I would
recommend you contact Les at the above e-mail. I have found His
tool to be very well made, and a great improvement in time /
accuracy over the crocker sharpener I had been using. Although
the final cost has not been yet determined, it seems that it will
be significantly less than the GRS dual angle fixture. This tool
does not have all the markings that the GRS fixture has, and does
not seem to be intended as a replacement for it. perhaps Les
could adapt the design for use with a power hone for those who do
not have the dual angle fixture already, but I would think the
the GRS product would be better for the power hone setup. Since
proper tool sharpening is especially critical for beginners, as
well as the rest of us, this fixture is especially intended as an
aid to help beginners make progress intially with less of a cash
outlay. Les is very easy to deal with, and can send pictures of
the fixture to you if you are interested. I am so impressed with
it that I am sending him a check so I can keep the one he sent
me. I will probably still want to get a power hone someday, but
with this new fixture, and the pre ground tool bits available
today, it is no longer a critical issue right now. I hope some of
you getting started, or who are not yet set up with a power
sharpening system will contact Les and give his fixture a try. I
am certainly benefitting from it more than he is from the Sale.
Talk to you all soon, Tom Steve Lindsay just sent me the first of his recently
patented “palm controllers” to try out last week!
Designed to fit on his Air Chasing and Classic tools, this new
improvement makes the foot pedal obsolete. Basically what he has
done, is to take all of the parts that are contained in his
standard foot control – shrunk them, and stuffed them inside
the handle of the tool. This palm control handle will be
available to fit on all of his previous tools except the Omega
version. Just twist off the old handle and twist on the palm
control. Connect the tubing directly to your air compressor
regulator. Set it for 40 – 45 lbs. of pressure and go to
work. ALL of the control is now in the handle, length of stroke
as well as the power of the impact. You need never reach for
controls with your arms or legs again! For me this will help a
LOT – having had two crushed ankles from some years back,
and the recent damage to my shoulder. I now engrave with a sling
hung from a cord and spring arrangement - hung from the
ceiling… While this isn’t fun or comfortable, I get
by… Instead of pressing on the pedal to get the tool to
respond, you simply push lightly on the graver. The
“feel” of traditional palm pushed gravers with all the
advantages of a power assist! I gotta admit old habits die hard,
and I found myself feeling around on the floor for the foot pedal
quite often. It also takes a little time to become tuned in with
this tool. Again I think that this has to do with habits you
acquire over the years. (I've been using foot controls for 28
years now.)It couldn’t be caused by getting old could it? A
beginner or a peron who normally palm pushed a graver would not
have to overcome these habits. After about 6 hours I felt
comfortable and confident with this amazing new technology. I
have made no adjustments to the tool since it arrived. The
settings that it arrived with are perfect for a wide variety of
engraving and stone setting, but Steve tells me that it can be
further fine tuned to a particular person’s style or a
particular job or technique. I only wish that these had been
around 30 years ago. Might have saved me those 3 carpal tunnel
and 2 elbow release surgeries… I will submit a review
accompanied by photos for the FEGA Engraver in the next week or
so. Anyone who wants to try this new palm controller is welcome
to stop by my studio. Please phone ahead of time. I don’t
sell any tools here, just practice materials and graver blanks.
You can contact Steve at his website for the official release
date & price. (Lindsayengraving.com) hi all has anyone in the room got a copy on vhs or cd rom
off how to engrave for begginers or anything that could help me
become a better engraver,I will pay any postage cheers Have your jewlery burrs recutt. Notify
Joe-breecher@webtv.net for details. My heart inside out-------- Hello everyone, This is to let
you know about my recent medical condition and the future. I am
currently at home recovering from open heart surgery where I had
my aortic valve replaced with a mechanical valve (St. Jude style)
last week, Thursday July 22nd. I am doing amazingly well. I know
that to some of you this will be a total surprise, but truly we
did not see the situation as being serious enough to warrant
public broadcast until now.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Five months ago (February of 2004) I had a physical in
anticipation of my upcoming 40th birthday. The doctor doing the
physical spent an extraordinary amount of time listening to my
heart, finally resulting in his statement, “Your heart
sounds terrible, you need to see a cardiologist right away.”
I was aware that I had heart murmur (leaking valve) since birth
but it had never been an issue in any physical activity and
honestly I had no indications that anything was wrong now other
than this strong verbal pronouncement. I did follow-up, the same
day in fact, with an ultrasound of my heart, which resulted in a
chart of numbers that was beyond my ability to interpret. I faxed
them off to the only real heart specialist I was acquainted with,
Dr. Mike Petracek a heart surgeon from Nashville that I knew was
one of the best in country. I really knew Mike through his wife
Connie Petracek, a US Shooting Team member who had been on the
’92 and ’96 Olympic Teams, and had been one the top
pistol shooters when she was competing.
------------------------------------------------------------ Mike
indicated the results showed the leakage was beyond an acceptable
level, and had started to enlarge (damage) the heart but was very
minor at this point. We ultimately did some more testing but the
upshot was that I should plan to have the valve replaced while my
heart was still overall very healthy, sometime within the next 12
months, to keep it healthy. So we did some figuring of my
scheduled events of 2004 (engraving, shooting events, National
Guard stuff etc, and picked July 22 as the day to do it with the
following 12 week recovery time.
----------------------------------------------------------- Well,
we did the deed last Thursday and I can’t say enough about
Mike. Mike has surgeons from all the US and the world who come to
learn from him and he has gone overseas including China to teach
his heart surgery techniques. Its funny he made a comment about
surgeons that I see of engravers and shooters as well, that rang
very true to me. He said that most surgeons have the ability to
cut and sew, but very few have the ability to visualize the
overall project and how it will come out in the end. They spend
too much time worrying about how it will come it while there are
doing it, rather than having that assurance that it will come out
as intended, which is of course detrimental to the final product.
------------------------------------------------------------
Rhonda had stayed with Mike and Connie during my surgery and been
helping Connie pick and can the vegetables from Connie’s
huge garden., something Rhonda would normally be doing at our
house this time of year anyway. Connie was glad for the help and
Rhonda was happy to have something to occupy her mind other than
thinking about me. By Saturday afternoon the 24th, I was doing
well enough to be checked out of the hospital, and go home with
Mike to let him monitor me from his house. What a real treat to
discover that Mike was gourmet cook as well, I was eating
fantastically prepared buffalo, elk, and red fish from the Gulf
along with all the fresh veggies from the garden over the next
few days, Wow! It amazed that I could be doing so well 3 days
after surgery, including walking up and down 2 flights of stairs
on a regular basis. Don’t get me wrong, I am still sore,
tired, groggy at times, and of course I am on various medications
at the moment, to include some pain stuff, but overall I am doing
really well all things considered, Fantastic really.
------------------------------------------------------------ I
expect a complete recovery, with 12 weeks being required for the
breastbone to knit back together where it was sawn in half. I got
home yesterday, and will continue to walk and do everything
within limits to hasten my recovery. Probably even do some
engraving in the next week or so.
------------------------------------------------------------ If
you want to send me an e-mail that’s fine, the computer is
where I will be spending the bulk of my time the next few weeks.
If you feel the need to send flowers, I would much prefer that
you make a donation in that amount to USA Shooting, One Olympic
Plaza, Colorado Springs, CO 80909. www.usashooting.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway I consider myself very fortunate to have friends like Mike
and Connie, and friends like you. You all are a very important
part of who I am. --------- My Best wishes to all of you, Scott to write. get the :jewelry Engravers manual"by Hardy.
There are a lot of different ways to engrave lettering, and the
size matters too. A square, and coople of small rounds, and a
couple of narrow flats will get you going. take are, Tom Simple question, hard to put into words. What number graver
do I use for script engraving,block lettering,old english, etc...
I am confused since there are so many different gravers and
numbers. What are the basic numbers I need to start out with and
when do I use that number with what font. Also should I get them
from GRS or some other vendor? Presently I am using a flat 38, is
this right? Thanks for your help!!! Laurie Hi Brian, Sorry I got on a roll this morning, I should have
checked what I was writing, it is rather long isn't it. M. E. in
my case stands for Mechanical Engineer but I have been a utility
manager for the last 15 years, retired/disabled. I guess my wife
is right about my hot air content. Safety has always been a prime
concern in either field, and it will get me going in a minute. I
was injured 3 years ago in an auto accident and I found myself
with a lot of time on my hands in between surgeries. I was
looking at a magazine one day and admiring a engraved double
barreled shotgun, I said to myself “I wish I had the time to
learn how to do that”, then I realized I had the time. At
the time I had nerve damage in my right arm and both legs, so I
had to be creative about how I got into it. Ask Steve Lindsay, he
was sure I was out of my mind. But 3 years later and I love it, I
wake up thinking about getting to the bench and what I want to
try out doing today. I’ve yet to try to engrave a gun yet,
but it will come. I’ve filled up enough space on this board,
thank you all for the info you provide. Have a great week. Is
there a phone number for the FEGA office that I can call? Thanks
Tim Clark Hi Tim, Thanks for expounding more on the shop safety
issues. I'm curious about the M.E.? Was that Mechanical Engineer
or Medical Examiner? Mr. Marshall is absolutely correct, the real dangers in
your shop are the ones you don’t see. An air compressor is
one of the worst things you can use to clean your shop/bench.
Always use a damp rag to wipe down dust from your hone and
cuttings on and around your bench. The materials used in the
engraving trade are far more dangerous then most people know, but
it is often the other products we use to complete a project that
are the real danger, cleaning solvents, hardwood dust, Titanium
dust, Ivory dust, metal chips from alloys, and glues. These
dangers are as a result of what we are making at the time, and as
a result, the materials we work on often change from job to job.
You might be cutting titanium one day, then working on hardwoods
the next. On a nice spring day you might want to open the doors
and windows and let the breeze blow through the shop, think of
all the projects and materials you have used in the shop since
you last opened the doors, that is what is blowing around in your
shop now. I was an M.E. for 30+ years in my previous life, and
worked as a tool and die maker when I was younger going to
school. Here’s some tips I have learned over the years
working with machinery and safety, I’m sure many of you
already know them, but for those that don’t: 1. CLEAN YOUR
WORK AREA EVERY DAY OR WHEN YOU CHANGE PROJECTS. Use a wet/damp
mop to sweep your floors, not a push broom and wear a mask when
doing it. I keep a clean wet rag in a shallow bowl right next to
my bench with a bottle of machine oil, I wipe down my bench,
vise, turntable and power hone 3 to 4 times a day. A hose works
on the shop floors if you are set up with drains and can do it,
but keep the pressure low on any nozzle you use and don’t
try to blast the dust out. If you have to vacuum, use long hoses
and place the vacuum outside or by a open door with a fan blowing
the air passed the vacuum and out of the breathing space. 2.
Change rags every day or when changing materials like brass to
silver to stainless. This also helps in saving shavings for the
foundry to recycle your gold and silver. 3. Always wear a mask
when wiping down or cleaning, wash your hands before and after.
4. Wash your shop clothes separately from your other clothes they
have the dust in them too. An apron will help keep the dust on
your clothes to a minimum, but now you have to remember to wash
your apron. And watch that apron around machinery, you don’t
want to get pulled into a spinning tool. Shirt tails out and long
sleeve’s are a no-no in any shop with spinning tools. For
this reason I am also careful about when to wear gloves or not,
depending on the tool you are working with. 5. Keep a box of rags
and a bucket of water, if you don’t have a sink in your
shop, it will make wiping down a habit if you do it a lot. Of
course with metal objects use some oil to protect the steel. 6.
If you have kids, don’t let them into your shop unless they
wear a mask. And make them take a shower after, kids put their
fingers in their mouths, and they usually do it after touching
something. WASH YOUR HANDS 7. When you come home at night,
don’t hug your kids until you are clean, this is hard since
the kids want a hug as soon as you get home, don’t give in.
Some of the saddest cases are of kids that just were exposed to
hazardous materials such as asbestos and lead from their fathers
working as auto mechanics. 8. Learn what is safe to use and what
is not, solvents and cleaners are very dangerous and can cause
serious problems when mixed, read the MSDS sheets for any
product. Be alert to dangers that are around you. One of the
worst accidents I investigated involved two crews working in a
trench together, one crew was working cutting a ductile iron pipe
with a circular saw, the other was gluing a PVC pipe to a
coupling mounted to the ductile pipe 25 feet away, but in the
same trench. The fumes from the glue ignited with the dust from
the ductile pipe inside the pipe, ductile iron pipe contains
magnesium which is used to align the molecules of the steel,
making the steel tougher to break, and resistant to bending. The
ignition resulted in a metal fire that killed everyone in the
trench, 8 closed caskets. And by the way, very few fire
extinguishes will put out a “metal fire”. If you think
you don’t need to think about this problem because you
don’t work on ductile pipe, think again, do you work with
springs? I’m sure you have heard of people making knives out
of truck leaf springs? Was that knife your engraving made that
way, do you know? Think about how a knife blade gets tough and
hardened to 58-60 rc at the same time, check the charts for ATS
34 or 440, although in smaller amounts. The build-up of dust
could present a problem, why take a chance. And don’t even
get me started on titanium, keep titanium wet at all times when
grinding, and dispose of the dust in a slurry form in a separate
bag from the rest of your garbage. Don’t let the dust get
airborne it can ignite very easily. 9. If you smoke, don’t
do it in the shop, not for the fire danger, though that is a big
problem. You are taking a cigarette and touching it to your lips
with your DUSTY hands, you flick the ash with your dusty thumb.
WASH YOUR HANDS 10. When you think that you have cleaned
everything within an inch of it’s life, until only the paint
can come off next, you are about 50% done cleaning. 11. WASH YOUR
HANDS, AND DO THIS OFTEN. This should be number 1., but I’m
not going to re-number this message. It’s not that I’m
a cleaning nut, it is the safety that is what I’m talking
about, and what is important. When dust is the problem only
cleaning can help solve that problem. It’s hard to work in a
“well ventilated area” and still keep dust from
becoming airborne, that’s where wiping down can help. A tip
on ventilation, it is also a preferred method of ventilation to
force clean air into a space then try to exhaust bad air out, of
course both usually works best. And please don’t mount your
dust collector inside the shop/house, I can’t tell you how
many factories and shops I have seen with this setup. It does no
good to exhaust your dust collector into the same breathing space
as your shop or worst your house, even if it is in another room.
If the wife doesn’t want you putting a hole through the wall
to exhaust the dust collector outside, ask her how she would feel
to find the roof two addresses down the street one morning. I am
new to engraving, and these are just some of the problems areas
that I have seen since I have taken up this trade, there are many
more areas that could be dangerous too I’m sure. Everyone
stay safe, live a long life and make beautiful things for all to
enjoy. Sorry this is so long, but organizing safety plans and
hazard mitigation was one of the hats I wore for 22 years before
I was injured in an auto accident. Talk about ironic. Good Luck,
Tim Clark metalchipper@aol.com A side note to what I just posted. The same student told me
that one of the most dangerous items that we all take for granted
in our shops are the solvents. For example he referred to lacquer
thinner as “liver solvent”… It goes right through
your skin, and eventually destroys your liver. Almost everything we do these days has some hidden drawback
and the engraving art is no exception. Cobalt, nickel, and other
components of modern day cutting alloys are listed on the MSDS
for each material. I actually had a student who worked HazMat in
his day job. We spent quite a few hours going over some of the
more obvious poisons, carcinogens, and other nasty stuff found in
an average workshop. He told me that in a one man engraving shop
the dust from sharpening cutters was something that should
definitely be considered – but that the particles produced
from grinding gravers were pretty heavy and as long as reasonable
care was taken to remove the residue the danger was
“minimal”. He did say that it would NOT be wise to blow
off the bench or your sharpening equipment with compressed air.
Not wise to vacuum either – unless you have one with a HEPA
or micron filter. Best, simplest way was with wet paper towels,
which are then wrapped in a plastic ziplock freezer bag to be
disposed of. You DO NOT want to help these little particles get
airborne! In the end YOU need to take the responsibility to find
out what you are working with and how it may affect your health.
While I believe that my personal bout with cancer was caused by
the cadmium fumes in the silver solder I used on a daily basis
for 20 years - it is entirely possible that one or more other
carcinogens were responsible in part or entirely. No one knows
for sure. My personal opinion about gravers for stainless are as
follows – please remember that these are my opinions and
others on this forum may differ… I believe that the
Glensteel is a couple degrees softer than Mo-Max. (If that is the
brand you are referring to?) I used Mo-Max for 10 years myself.
Most "carbide" tools also contain small amounts of
carcinogious (is that a word?) metals. And most carbide is
brittle, as you may know. The best balance of hardness,
toughness, and all around use that I have found is with the
Lindsay “Carbalt” graver blanks. I sharpen an ordinary
HSS graver 6 or 7 times to one time with the Carbalt. They cost a
little bit more, take a minute or two longer to sharpen, but the
time you save having to re-sharpen is worth far more… Above
all – and I’ll repeat myself here: READ THE WARNINGS,
READ THE MSDS, RESEARCH THE SUBJECT YOURSELF – then take the
responsibility to make your own decision. I am a perfect example
of what can happen if you don’t pay attention... Hello I am a new engraver and I have some Cobalt gravers
that I have been using. I notice that GRS no longer has Cobalt
for health reasons. Can you tell me what the health reason is. Is
it breathing the dust while sharpening. What is the alternative
for Stainless. Does the glen steel work for stainless hi all just like to tell the room that I have just engraved
a brass plaque with a scroll design and it has come out rather
good for my standards,I used the hammer and gravers technique. I
just show's that if you keep trying and don't give up that you
will slowly progress and also listen to the advise that people
give you on this site.The main point that I was happy with is
that I did,nt slip across the piece and ruin it.It is only in the
last to days that I have found the right angle to hold the graver
at with out going to deep or to shallow,so its now a case off
more & more practice. don't now if this tip is anygood to any
off the room but when I was laying out my design I did,nt have
any off the chineese white ( I think that is what its called) to
I mixed a little white emultion paint and some water and rubbed
it onto the metal with my finger then used a hair-dryer to get it
go off ,then I was able to draw onto it. regards ian Tom, I plan on using my gravermax with a carbide bit fot
some of the cutting and then comming in with the 850 rotary and
barley touching the areas that would be darkened with ink or rust
oleum with heavier or more touches in the darkest areas or the
areas that would be darker, I have used this technique on glass
engraving only in reverse, (touching the areas more that would be
the lighter) all i do is use a scanned copy in gray tones to give
me the areas that need more attention than others, any more help
would be greatly appreciated for engraving is very new to me, I
have only been at it about 4 months and brother is it a son of a
gun to get used to, no pun intended. It really depends, in my opinion, on the type of finish on
the metal. A satin finish stainless would work well if you used
the techniques you described. In my experience, miror finshes do
not look good with black in the cuts.Also, how hard is the blade?
What type of tool do you plan to use? Take care, Tom Interesting Tom concerning the process in silver or
(stainless in my case) I was given a long sort of machette knife
and the fella asked me if i could engrave a mountain lion on it,
since i have been an airbrush artist for years i figured i could
do it, now,, You have got me a little gun shy, I thought i could
just cut it stipple it and then darken it. Any more help would be
greatly appreciated thank you Did the engravers of the late 19th century use a particular
pattern or style on the guns they engraved. Sort of a trademark?
I was interested in an engraver from this time period who used
scroll work, but incorporated what appear to be grape vines and
and bunches of grapes. Can anyone identify this engraver? Also,
was it common to purchase a gun in a blued finish from the
factory and then have it plated and engraved somewhere else?
Thanks, Chris hi has anyone got plans off how to make a ball vise out off
a bowling ball,if so can you e-mail me or let me now and I will
give you my address hey James, This work can be challenging. I did a simple
portrait on a silver zippo once. It really ended up almost
looking like a negative. The cuts in silver tend to look "whiter" than the polished background. I would get a
polished piece of scrap silver, and try out a Dog on that. make
the cuts where you want the dog to be white, leave the black
areas relatively untouched, except for some lines to suggest
form. Then see how it looks. That is the best i know to suggest.
You may want to look at some glass engravings to see the effect,
since the stippling in the glass looks white, and the plain glass
is "darker" in a sense. Hope this helps. Tom render a couple of black and white pointer dogs onto the
side of a 12' silver bowl. The image of the dogs will be about
1.5 inches high. I will be leaving the image bright and
undarkened when finished. Question: how do I best create the
sense of black and white contrast on these small dogs on a bright
surface? I have noticed horizontal shade lines appear to reflect
more light than vertical. Should I just render like I was doing a
printing plate. I have noticed that some small engraving on
jewelry is done in very shallow relief like the bas relief of a
coin. Rendering in bright metal seems to create challenges
different from when one darkens the engraving with ink or oxide.
Any suggestions or referals to examples would be appreaciated. Hi my name is Andy Hawgood and I am emailing to ask you if
could help me engrave a number of different metal products with
custom engraving. One of my projects is to engrave a number of
bicycles from top to bottom, the entire bike. I would be do a run
of these that are going to be a limited edition bike promotion. I
don't know if you guys do that stuff, but if you have ideas or
leads please contact me and I would be much obliged. William, coloring using paint is done essentially the same
as doing color scrimshaw. I have seen some really awesome work
done this way, but in my opinion, it cheapens the overall
presentation. Some like it and pay big bucks for it and some
don't. To each is own. Of course you can color to the extent of
various alloys and materials, yellow, green, red, white golds,
and other metals. ---As far as background removal with a hi speed
rotatry, it can be done, but it takes a lot practice, in the
meantime you can screw up more the you can fix. most of the time,
I stick with gravers to remove material in tight areas. the
rotary is for the bigger spaces. A lot depends on what size
scrolls you cut and consequently what size background chunks you
have to remove. Of course, some of us avoid removing background
on harder metals/guns.... selective bead blasting would be my
prefferred background treatment in such a case. Hope this helps Hello folks, I wondering how some of you pros get your
color into your engraving, and would also like to ask info on
backround removal of stainless steel revolvers, I am using a
gravermax and was wondering if the grs rotary tool would be a
good backround removal tool, thanx all and a special thank you to
Eugene Koeving and Ron Nott, these guys are super and have been
very willing to help me and i appreciate it. hi all I am looking for a second hand GRS graver for sale
if you have one or know off anyone let me now please.don't need a
compresser as already got one Ian, the crocker engravers are not that exact, so you have
to set up your own references. To do this set a square graver in
there so that is exactly flat , chekc this by make small drags
across the stone, and adjusting until it is exactly dragging the
same all the way across. --- that becomes one of your zero marks,
make a mark on one of the crocker ticks. then turn it over 90
degrees, do the same thing on this flat of the square, then mark
that as 90, and go overgain to the next flat and mark that as
zero again. Hope this gets you going--- scott hi all I have just got a crocker graver sharpener and I am
having difficulty in using it,I can understand the setting off
the side angle but when it comes to setting the heel angle at say
52 degrees I can understand as i can't see a reference point to
say where you go from there to set the angle if anyone has got
any pics to highlight this it would be a great help to me as pics
are sopmtinmes easyier to understand but words are sometime as
good, For electroless nickel plating, try Craftguard out of Iowa.
They have done very nice bluing and plating for me at very
reasonable prices. Their number is: 319-232-2959. Can anyone recommend a good electroless nickel plating
company? The one gun that I had plated was sent to a guy near
Uvalde, TX and he did a super job on it. His company was called
Nitex Guns, but I have heard that he went out of business about a
year ago. If you want a powered graver that can work with your own
air compressor, try the Lindsay Air Graver.
http://www.lindsayengraving.com/ This little tool is the best out
there. It can be adjusted to a all speed ranges and will even run
by just blowing into the air line, you can't cut that way though.
For someone that wants to, you can even use a tire pump with an
air tank to engrave if you want to be portable. No spings to
break and all stainless, the only thing is, it is not cheap. But
you get what you pay for, high quality. I like mine so much I am
getting a second one, and check out his new handle for the
AirGraver that is coming out soon, no more foot pedels. I don't
work for him, I'm just a happy customer. Good Luck, Tim hi all Is there anyone in here within 2 hrs drive off me
that is willing for me to come down theres and get a few
tips,there must be someone out there with a good heart Ian, it doesn't work that way. The gravermeister is a
self-contained unit comprising an electric motor that spins a
rotary air pump and a rotary valve that alternates between the
pressure side and vacuum side to operate the piston in the
handpiece. At least that is how it looks to me. Just hooking to
an air supply would not work. I have been using the same
gravermeister since late 1974 so one can expect to get one's
money's worth! The gravermax is more versatile in strokes per
minute and such but I have found the 'meister to fill all my
needs over the years. SW hi all I have been looking at the Ngraver site at the price
off the gravermeister at aronud $1000,is there anyone out there
who has had there own air surply and just bought the hand piece
and the foot control ,if so did you have any issues getting it
going or was it straight forward.plus if you only buy these items
what is the power like?is it variable I realize this is short notice, but ... I'm looking for an
engraver that might be able to take on a job in the next week. My
brother is getting married a week from today (he didn't give me
much notice), and though I have a gift I'm giving him the night
before, I'd like to have a beautiful plaque/nameplate created. If
there is anyone interested and available I'd really appreciate
talking with you. Ian, I would recommend getting the vari-pact feature if you
can afford it. You can use other gravers, but theirs are very
good. They are great people to deal with. I have bought a lot of
stuff from them over the years. Tom I am thinking off getting a ngraver,I am a beginer.are they
anygood or do they give poor result also do they over heat with
them being electric or is this a good place to start .also do you
have to buy the gravers off them or can you use any without
adapting Para, if the engraver is working in the gunsmith's shop
then he doesn't need an FFL in addition to the 'smith's. However,
if he then takes the gun to his own shop that constitutes another
transfer and an FFL is needed by the engraver and the transfer
logged into his record book as well as logged out by the
gunsmith. SW OK, I see, Sam. Thx for clearing that up. This is what you
are hearing from your batf representative? If it's already rec'd
and disassembled by a gunsmith, would the engraver have to be
licensed as well? TIA....... PS To truly compensate for the curve, you have to do the
layout on a curve in the opposite direction. In other words, if
when you make a transfer the text "bends" into a slight
"smiley" face, you have to do the layout in a
slight"frown" for it to end up straight across the
piece. This takes some "feel" and experience, as i have
no way of figuring out a mathematical formula to compensate for
this. I am hoping, in your case, that the small area will not
allow much distorion to show. Tom Guy, do you have a way of printing out text in reverse? You
can layout the text on a word processor, and print it in reverse
on a laser printer. Then tape it face down to the piece, and use
a paper towel to put acetone onto the back of the paper. This
will print the toner onto the item. Sometimes, a coating of damar
varnish will work to make the transer clearer. If you have an
inkjet printer, take your reverse copy to a place where you can
get copies made. The ink will not transfer itself, hence the need
to make the copy on a regular copier. If you can't print in
reverse, print the text onto acetate, then tkae to the copier
place and put the acetate on the copier in reverse, to make your
reverse copies. It will take some practice to get the right
amount of acetone to make a good transfer, but when you get the
hang of it, this will help a lot with this type of layout
problem. If you have corel draw, it is even easier to manipulate
text. If you don't have it, go on e-bay and try to find an older
version. I am still using version 9 just fine. Check out
masterengraver.com too. Sam Alfano has a very helpful CD
available on doing lettering layout on corel draw. best of
success, Tom Need Help; Having a very difficult time laying out the
letters. I am engraving three lines,in script, on four small
lockets with engravable areas of 3/8" x 1/2" that have
curved survaces (in both directions). Any suggestions Para- What you say is OK in regards to all parts except the
frame of a firearm. This is the item that requires a visible
serial number and to receive said item from the owner via
mail/parcel service or to keep said item on your premises from
one business day to the next requires an FFL on your part. About the gunsmith/bluing issue... Firearms dealers
licenses and firearms issues fall under the authority of the IRS
Code, Title 26 USC and it concerns the transfer of firearms from
one person to another,the taxes involved, and the registration
issues, not the matter of the gunsmith or engraving work being
done. To receive or transfer firearms to another an FFL is
required, if one does enough of these transfers yearly to be
considered a 'dealer'. And while only a receiver of a firearms IS
considered to be a firearm under the code, by having the firearm
received and disassembled by a gunsmith with an ffl first, a
license would not be required for the engraver of a firearm or if
the owner of the firearm were to provide the firearm to you for
engraving disassembled or only the parts requiring engraving,
this changes the dynamics of it all due to the fact that this
would render the firearm in an unserviceable condition and not
subject to the transfer code. Unservicable condition is defined
in the code as a firearm that cannot be readily made to shoot a
projectile. This would be similar to how you can buy parts for
firearms and ship or mail them openly from state to state without
restriction but not a completed firearm. This information can be
found at Title 26, Subtitle E, Chapter 53, Subchapter B, Part 1,
Section 5845 United States Code or you could check with an
attorney about it. If anyone wanting to get started engraving and needs a reasonal priced sharpening graver holder, then check this out. I have made a tool that I will sell for $50 that will have all of the angles as well as allow for the slight radius on the bottom cutting edge if needed. You can make |